Jon Venables.

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Expand view Topic review: Jon Venables.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by guest » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Major Starbold wrote:When out of jail on license and or other restrictions it is wise to keep ones head down, keep out of the public eye, their crime will never be forgotten.

Seems the perv is the only one not able to grasp the above.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Major » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:30 pm

When out of jail on license and or other restrictions it is wise to keep ones head down, keep out of the public eye, their crime will never be forgotten.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm

Guest wrote:
Ah, maybe I was confusing it with a different case.
No, I can't see where the public interest in naming them lies, either, though i can think of a couple of possible reasons why he did.
1. He allowed his own personal feelings of revulsion to outweigh the greater interests of the law - understandable perhaps but highly unprofessional.
2. He wanted to set an example to others - unlikely to be effective though because any other 10 year-olds probably wouldn't understand the concept.
3. Political pressure from the Home Office. Wasn't this around the time of the Tories' Tough on Crime and Back to Basics campaigns? I can see the Govt. being perfectly capable of doing something like that.

To keep it all in one post, I'm not sure that putting Thompson&Venables in an adult prison once they turned 18 is a good idea. I'm not really a fan of charging and sentencing children in the same way as an adult once they reach the age of majority. You end up with the prospect of executing people for crimes they committed as a child, when such penalties were not applicable - I believe this has happened in the US, and it's not a road I want to go down.
There's also the risk that in an adult prison their identities would have become known and they would have become targets for vengeance attacks by other inmates.
I think it would have been a good idea to have placed them in some sort of halfway house type situation, perhaps like an open prison, where they could be monitored and gradually re-introduced to society - Venables doesn't seem to have developed the ability to cope with his "freedom".
It is a very complex matter, I don't see any easy solutions one way or the other. As it stands, Thompson's rehabilitation has been successful, Venables' hasn't. I suppose it depends on whether or not you believe a 50% success rate is worth all the effort expended.



I take your point about the adult prison - that's how the courts felt at the time too. I also think the judge let his personal feelings to outweigh the interests of law. I just think that Jon Venables perhaps feels he wasn't really punished for what he did and it's haunting him.

It must be weird for him to read about himself, about how he had an easy time in detention, about how people want to kill him, and how evil they think he is. I wonder if anyone would be "rehabilitated" in those circumstances.

We don't know anything about Thompson. He obviously hasn't broken the law or the terms of his license, but we also don't know how he's coping with life. Does rehabilitation merely mean that someone doesn't actually break the law again?

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Guest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm

Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Stooo wrote:[quote="guest"

I think that they both should have been kept anonymous from the start, seriously, what was the point in naming them?


I agree. I don't know why the judge named them, but a fortune has been spent on protecting them.


Because of exactly that.


Didn't he get into trouble for doing that with the judges' professional governance body? (or whatever it's called in England. I'm sure I read something about it in the papers.[/quote]

I can't find anything about that tbh. I think it was a mistake, but I guess he was entitled to lift reporting restrictions. That only applied to their identity though didn't it? I don't think anyone was allowed to say where they were or whatever. He said he allowed them to be named in the public interest, but I really don't see what good it did, or why the general public needed to know who they were.[/quote]

Ah, maybe I was confusing it with a different case.
No, I can't see where the public interest in naming them lies, either, though i can think of a couple of possible reasons why he did.
1. He allowed his own personal feelings of revulsion to outweigh the greater interests of the law - understandable perhaps but highly unprofessional.
2. He wanted to set an example to others - unlikely to be effective though because any other 10 year-olds probably wouldn't understand the concept.
3. Political pressure from the Home Office. Wasn't this around the time of the Tories' Tough on Crime and Back to Basics campaigns? I can see the Govt. being perfectly capable of doing something like that.

To keep it all in one post, I'm not sure that putting Thompson&Venables in an adult prison once they turned 18 is a good idea. I'm not really a fan of charging and sentencing children in the same way as an adult once they reach the age of majority. You end up with the prospect of executing people for crimes they committed as a child, when such penalties were not applicable - I believe this has happened in the US, and it's not a road I want to go down.
There's also the risk that in an adult prison their identities would have become known and they would have become targets for vengeance attacks by other inmates.
I think it would have been a good idea to have placed them in some sort of halfway house type situation, perhaps like an open prison, where they could be monitored and gradually re-introduced to society - Venables doesn't seem to have developed the ability to cope with his "freedom".
It is a very complex matter, I don't see any easy solutions one way or the other. As it stands, Thompson's rehabilitation has been successful, Venables' hasn't. I suppose it depends on whether or not you believe a 50% success rate is worth all the effort expended.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Stooo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.


Why then does the press announce it every time he's back in prison, and why do they always interview Denise Fergus?


Because it sells newspapers, gets clicks and generates revenue.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm

Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.


Why then does the press announce it every time he's back in prison, and why do they always interview Denise Fergus?

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Stooo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:33 pm

guest wrote:
Major Starbold wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Major Starbold wrote:They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.


I don't think anyone can understand it Major. They probably don't understand it themselves. It's my opinion that Jon Venables is re-living what he did over and over again, and that's why he's interested in child abuse - ie, porn. I don't think he has come to terms with what he did at all.


Yes Miss Ragga.
I want future innocent humans, particularly children to be protected from those such as he but I cannot trust him especially him being interested in child abuse,


I do not believe he will/can ever change, some appear to punish themselves in their own way..

I dunno really.


If his use of child porn is his way of punishing himself then perhaps he's best left behind bars indefinitely. Rehabilitation hasn't worked as the threat of being caught and returned to jail is obviously no deterrent.


Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by guest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:26 pm

Major Starbold wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Major Starbold wrote:They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.


I don't think anyone can understand it Major. They probably don't understand it themselves. It's my opinion that Jon Venables is re-living what he did over and over again, and that's why he's interested in child abuse - ie, porn. I don't think he has come to terms with what he did at all.


Yes Miss Ragga.
I want future innocent humans, particularly children to be protected from those such as he but I cannot trust him especially him being interested in child abuse,


I do not believe he will/can ever change, some appear to punish themselves in their own way..

I dunno really.


If his use of child porn is his way of punishing himself then perhaps he's best left behind bars indefinitely. Rehabilitation hasn't worked as the threat of being caught and returned to jail is obviously no deterrent.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:31 pm

Guest wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Stooo wrote:
guest wrote:Interested in views regarding the anonymity rights of these murderers. In light of Venables' recent violation do you think he should still have the right of anonymity?

Personally I feel he should have lost that blanket the moment his arse was hauled back into jail in 2010.


I think that they both should have been kept anonymous from the start, seriously, what was the point in naming them?


I agree. I don't know why the judge named them, but a fortune has been spent on protecting them.


Because of exactly that.


Didn't he get into trouble for doing that with the judges' professional governance body? (or whatever it's called in England. I'm sure I read something about it in the papers.


I can't find anything about that tbh. I think it was a mistake, but I guess he was entitled to lift reporting restrictions. That only applied to their identity though didn't it? I don't think anyone was allowed to say where they were or whatever. He said he allowed them to be named in the public interest, but I really don't see what good it did, or why the general public needed to know who they were.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:28 pm

Major Starbold wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Major Starbold wrote:They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.


I don't think anyone can understand it Major. They probably don't understand it themselves. It's my opinion that Jon Venables is re-living what he did over and over again, and that's why he's interested in child abuse - ie, porn. I don't think he has come to terms with what he did at all.


Yes Miss Ragga.
I want future innocent humans, particularly children to be protected from those such as he but I cannot trust him especially him being interested in child abuse,


I do not believe he will/can ever change, some appear to punish themselves in their own way..

I dunno really.


I hope they've gone after the people who actually put the porn stuff online in the first place, or those who actually abuse children. We never seem to hear much about that, we only hear about the people who are caught downloading it.

I don't see how he could have a normal life anyway. He had to try to erase the first ten years of his life and pretend to be someone he wasn't. He's afraid of being identified, and yet he clearly finds it difficult to maintain the lie which he's forced to tell about his identity. I think they were let out too early - they were barely adults. Perhaps if he'd gone to an adult prison he might feel he'd been punished properly.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Major » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:24 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Major Starbold wrote:They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.


I don't think anyone can understand it Major. They probably don't understand it themselves. It's my opinion that Jon Venables is re-living what he did over and over again, and that's why he's interested in child abuse - ie, porn. I don't think he has come to terms with what he did at all.


Yes Miss Ragga.
I want future innocent humans, particularly children to be protected from those such as he but I cannot trust him especially him being interested in child abuse,


I do not believe he will/can ever change, some appear to punish themselves in their own way..

I dunno really.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:05 pm

Major Starbold wrote:They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.


I don't think anyone can understand it Major. They probably don't understand it themselves. It's my opinion that Jon Venables is re-living what he did over and over again, and that's why he's interested in child abuse - ie, porn. I don't think he has come to terms with what he did at all.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Major » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:45 pm

They committed this heinous crime as children, I cannot understand how such evil can get into their minds being so young.

Re: Jon Venables.

Post by Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:37 pm

Vicks wrote:Jon Venables has been rumbled inside prison and a price has been put on his head.

No doubt someone would love to make a name for themselves by killing or seriously injuring the baby murdering, sex beast.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5149857/James-Bulger-murderer-price-head-prison.html


Unless they're already in there for their whole life, they can look forward to another life sentence for murder then. Mrs Fergus wasn't the last to know, but why she be told anything anyway?

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