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What is Socialism?

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Expand view Topic review: What is Socialism?

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Cannydc » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:09 pm

:pmsl: :pmsl: :pmsl:

You aren't waving are you ? Nope, you are drowning.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by MungoBrush » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:33 am

Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.



In addition to all your other faults, you must also have a very short memory.

The referendum was in the Conservative election manifesto
The Conservatives won the election with an increased majority
By holding the referendum, the Conservatives were honoring a manifesto commitment

By contrast, Corbyn defied the Labour whip and voted in favour of holding the referendum.
It's Corbyn who is the hypocrite.
Cameron and Osbourne campaigned for the remain side


Seriously, can you read ??

Yes, it was in the Tory manifesto - a Tory wheeze to mollify their Brexiteer brigade.

Oh, and Corbyn wasn't the one who slunk off asap, that would be Cameron too....


Cameron and Osborne resigned with honour following the Brexit vote
They had campaigned to remain but the people voted to leave
That's democracy

They had a referendum in Thailand over 2 years ago to partially restore democracy
Hope you enjoy living under a military dictatorship / partial democracy

You do know that all the media there is censored don't you?
And you'd better not post your drivel on here - as that is monitored and censored there as well
You wouldn't want to end up in a Thai jail

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Cannydc » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:41 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.



In addition to all your other faults, you must also have a very short memory.

The referendum was in the Conservative election manifesto
The Conservatives won the election with an increased majority
By holding the referendum, the Conservatives were honoring a manifesto commitment

By contrast, Corbyn defied the Labour whip and voted in favour of holding the referendum.
It's Corbyn who is the hypocrite.
Cameron and Osbourne campaigned for the remain side


Seriously, can you read ??

Yes, it was in the Tory manifesto - a Tory wheeze to mollify their Brexiteer brigade.

Oh, and Corbyn wasn't the one who slunk off asap, that would be Cameron too....

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by MungoBrush » Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.



In addition to all your other faults, you must also have a very short memory.

The referendum was in the Conservative election manifesto
The Conservatives won the election with an increased majority
By holding the referendum, the Conservatives were honoring a manifesto commitment

By contrast, Corbyn defied the Labour whip and voted in favour of holding the referendum.
It's Corbyn who is the hypocrite.
Cameron and Osbourne campaigned for the remain side

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:16 pm

Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:What was the turnout in the AVref?

No one gaf

:bored:


I GAF. the system is not fit for purpose.


I ask again. What was the avref turnout? No one gaf. I dont care if you do ir not.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Stooo » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:23 pm

Guest wrote:What was the turnout in the AVref?

No one gaf

:bored:


I GAF. the system is not fit for purpose.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Fletch » Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:11 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Fletch wrote:That article outlined the process, finishing with "granting a monopoly of banking activities to the public sector"

That is the government having the power to create money rather than private banks.

Capital reserves under fractional reserve banking don't mean what you think it means either. As no deposits actually leave the bank in the process of making a loan, how could it?


You obviously do not have the faintest clue as to how the banking system operates
Banks are under the continual governance and supervision of the sovereign bank
They can only make loans up to the limits approved by the central bank

You do not understand the difference between the manufacturing process and the governance process.
It's no different to Apple contracting out it's chip manufacturng to a Chinese company.


We've got a long thread with you showing you don't know anything about the system of money or banking mungo, I'll fish it out if necessary.

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=47042&hilit=BOE

In it is this quote that's been seen before and the article discussed in some msm. (BoE have revamped and changed the location so previous link now takes you to a search for BoE articles and information)

Money creation in the modern economy

By Michael McLeay, Amar Radia and Ryland Thomas of the Bank’s Monetary Analysis Directorate.

This article explains how the majority of money in the modern economy is created by commercial banks making loans.

Money creation in practice differs from some popular misconceptions — banks do not act simply as intermediaries, lending out deposits that savers place with them, and nor do they ‘multiply up’ central bank money to create new loans and deposits.

The amount of money created in the economy ultimately depends on the monetary policy of the central bank. In normal times, this is carried out by setting interest rates. The central bank can also affect the amount of money directly through purchasing assets or ‘quantitative easing’.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publicat ... b14q1.aspx


Doing away with a debt based money supply from private banks and replacing it with sovereign (state issued) money issued as a unit of value would solve many problems under capitalism and is required under socialism.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Fletch » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:55 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Fletch wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Fletch wrote:That article outlined the process, finishing with "granting a monopoly of banking activities to the public sector"

That is the government having the power to create money rather than private banks.

Capital reserves under fractional reserve banking don't mean what you think it means either. As no deposits actually leave the bank in the process of making a loan, how could it?


You obviously do not have the faintest clue as to how the banking system operates
Banks are under the continual governance and supervision of the sovereign bank
They can only make loans up to the limits approved by the central bank

You do not understand the difference between the manufacturing process and the governance process.
It's no different to Apple contracting out it's chip manufacturng to a Chinese company.


How does a Dollar, Pound, Euro come in to existence mungo?


How does silicone come into existence?
Your question has just as much to do about financial economics as my question does about computer chip design.

You are confused between the manufacturing process and financial management governance.


Can you explain what you mean by that please?

Who is in control of the money supply, that every country needs, is not irrelevant at all mungo so who has the power to create money, not the actual physical notes and coins but the actual unit of currency?

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Guest » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Stooo wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.


That is still going on.

Division is still an issue with the two main parties and it's caused by the certainty of our stupid electoral system for a guaranteed amount of seats with elections decided by marginals. FPTP is not democracy in this day and age.


What was the turnout in the AVref?

No one gaf

:bored:

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Stooo » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:15 pm

Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.


That is still going on.

Division is still an issue with the two main parties and it's caused by the certainty of our stupid electoral system for a guaranteed amount of seats with elections decided by marginals. FPTP is not democracy in this day and age.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by Cannydc » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:08 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


Initiated by Cameron, driven by the fear of revolt by Tory back benchers.

Figureheads in the guise of Johnson, Gove, Davis, Patel, Duncan Smith and Redwood. All Tories.

They used Gisela Stuart in a very poor bid t pretend this whole charade was cross-party. It wasn't.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by wutang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:29 am

MungoBrush wrote:
wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart


The Government holds power and they had zero plans in place of what to do.

Two years down the line and they havent a foggiest about what to do hence talks of bringing in the army to deal with the social fallout.

Strong and stable :ooer:

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by wutang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:27 am

To bring this back to the topic of the thread.

What McDonnell is describing - capital flight, economic warfare by capital - shows how at its heart capitalism is undemocratic. The true power within this system comes from those who control capital and they have the power to bring entire nations to their knees if the masses dont play by THEIR rules.

This is why social democracy (such as that promoted by the likes of Corbyn) is at best a temporary measure doomed to fail without a more radical will to push it further. The crisis of the 1970's was exactly an example of the limits of social democracy and because the electoral left was unwilling to go further it resulted in the Thatchers and Reagans of the world gaining power by offering a solution - one that was based on punishing the working class and making them pay the price but a solution nonetheless.

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by MungoBrush » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:22 am

wutang wrote:I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)


Actually, the Brexit vote (Vote Leave) was chaired by a Labour MP Gisela Stuart

Re: What is Socialism?

Post by wutang » Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:16 am

MungoBrush wrote:
Just denying what McDonnell actually said at a Labour Party conference earlier this year makes you look like a complete pratt.


What he actually said: "What if there is a run on the pound? What happens if there is this concept of capital flight? I don't think there will be, but you never know, so we've got to scenario plan for that. People want to know we are ready and they want to know we have got a response to everything that could happen. Because if we can demonstrate that, that will calm things down."

So he's not planning on crashing the currency he is planning what to do if international capitalists decide to launch an attack on the currency.

I wonder what measures the Tories have if such a thing happened? oh wait it did in 1992 and all they could do was shit the bed. Just like they shit the bed over the Brexit vote (zero preperation for what to do, still no clue about what to do 2 years later)

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