Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

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Expand view Topic review: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:46 pm

And CJ, I understand single payer. Millions of Americans are covered without paying insurance premiums. It's not a foreign concept to us. :cuppaT:

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:43 pm

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:I'm 55 years old with a job. What do you think I would be getting? I support the people that get stuff.

For someone who likes to explain my country to me, you sure don't understand it.


You said in your quote there that the social security bill was too high and that everyone got it. Well you don't so not everyone does get it, do they.

You claim social security is too high but don't actually specify what it is. Thee are many categories for people receiving state funds, the unemployed, the sick, the disabled, pensioners, single parents, people on low incomes getting help with their housing costs, single parents getting help, parents in the form of child benefits? Help with compulsory local taxes? (our equivalent is council tax benefit)

You do the same as is tried here. Sweep all the categories in to one and then claim it's too high and savings must be made. The media then runs some stories about immigrants or feckless workshy types and then cuts are made to the most needy and vulnerable groups whilst state money continues to go to big corporations and those who don't really need it. Very Neo-liberal, very American.

The high costs of medical care are a result of your profit above all system. In fact many western problems are down to private provision of state services but as long as someone is making money out of necessity, all is good in the neo-liberal world. Costs are irrelevant when it goes to the 'right pockets'.



I'm making the claim that it's too high because we don't have the money to pay for it. At some point, social security and Medicare will need to be means tested. Donald Trump is over 65 so he's getting a social security check every month. Of course he paid in under the premise that he would get money back, regardless of his wealth. That's why Social Security is called the 3rd rail of American politics. Try to touch it and you die.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Fletch » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:09 am

Maddog wrote:I'm 55 years old with a job. What do you think I would be getting? I support the people that get stuff.

For someone who likes to explain my country to me, you sure don't understand it.


You said in your quote there that the social security bill was too high and that everyone got it. Well you don't so not everyone does get it, do they.

You claim social security is too high but don't actually specify what it is. Thee are many categories for people receiving state funds, the unemployed, the sick, the disabled, pensioners, single parents, people on low incomes getting help with their housing costs, single parents getting help, parents in the form of child benefits? Help with compulsory local taxes? (our equivalent is council tax benefit)

You do the same as is tried here. Sweep all the categories in to one and then claim it's too high and savings must be made. The media then runs some stories about immigrants or feckless workshy types and then cuts are made to the most needy and vulnerable groups whilst state money continues to go to big corporations and those who don't really need it. Very Neo-liberal, very American.

The high costs of medical care are a result of your profit above all system. In fact many western problems are down to private provision of state services but as long as someone is making money out of necessity, all is good in the neo-liberal world. Costs are irrelevant when it goes to the 'right pockets'.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Cactus Jack » Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:08 am

Maddog wrote:
Cactus Jack wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.

Good news MD - Single Payer is a more efficient system.

Rather than having thousands of different products being marketed, sold - so having commissions paid, claimed against, disputed etc etc etc you get one customer saying OK hip replacements cost £8,500 -roughly $11,000 - instead of a market for replacement hips that drives up the cost to $31,500. The customer - who in this case is a tax payer who pays for healthcare as a part of general taxation - is $20,000 to the good.


I'll keep that in mind when I get my hip replaced. Until then i would be fine with them repealing Obamacare so my premiums could go back down.

Do you understand your premiums wouldn't even exist under a single payer system paid out of general taxation?

That's not intended to be patronising I've spoken to Americans, even the liberal ones who support the ACA, who genuinely can't grasp that concept because it's so alien to your culture.

Edit - one more thing if you're really spending $7,000 a minute of toilet paper you really need to lay off the curry.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:47 am

Cactus Jack wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.

Good news MD - Single Payer is a more efficient system.

Rather than having thousands of different products being marketed, sold - so having commissions paid, claimed against, disputed etc etc etc you get one customer saying OK hip replacements cost £8,500 -roughly $11,000 - instead of a market for replacement hips that drives up the cost to $31,500. The customer - who in this case is a tax payer who pays for healthcare as a part of general taxation - is $20,000 to the good.


I'll keep that in mind when I get my hip replaced. Until then i would be fine with them repealing Obamacare so my premiums could go back down.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:44 am

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
How much to you get a month? (roughly)

You'll never have a more efficient health service for the poor, or the many, all the time you prioritise profits over patients.



Sorta depends what you pay in. My mom gets about 2 grand a month, and of course most of her medical bills are paid. She also has a supplemental plan that covers other things that medicare doesn't cover, or gives her higher end facilities that other's wouldn't get. Nothing fancy, just not the bottom of the barrel.

I pay about $500/month for insurance that really doesn't cover everything but protects me from something catostrophic.


So you don't get anything then. Is it age related or income related?

People on medicaid/care get money even if they don't need treatment that month?

Or is it pay for the treatment when you need it?

All the time you have this sort of thing@

Hospital Tells Woman To Use ‘GoFundMe’ For Her Own Heart Transplant — Yes, Really

Image

https://www.scarymommy.com/heart-transplant-gofundme/

You'll never get costs under control. Pay what they tell you or die is hardly a healthcare system suitable for a developed, modern nation.

I'm 55 years old with a job. What do you think I would be getting? I support the people that get stuff.

For someone who likes to explain my country to me, you sure don't understand it.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Sat Dec 08, 2018 3:39 am

ATXn;D wrote:
Maddog wrote:
ATXn;D wrote:
Maddog wrote:
ATXn;D wrote:More anonymous sources? :roll:

And who has the power of the purse? Oh yeah, congress.



No doubt Congress is full of spendthrifts. Trump made no attempt to cut spending, nor is he remotely interested in trying.



Uh huh :roll:


Trump orders Cabinet to cut agency budgets by 5 percent

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... f_amp=true





Yes, he did do that, but his increase in defense spending dwarfed it. Trump has made some decent inroads in deregulation and cutting through the government bullshit. But he is not a deficit hawk by any stretch of the imagination. That's why the deficit is going up at a rate no different than when Obama was in office. It's not important to Trump, most republicans and all democrats.




Hit the lnk. He specifically addressed the defense issue. Im pretty sure you know the story.


Trump's order comes amid growing worry among conservatives about rising federal spending. He said he "made deals with the devil" before signing a $1.3 trillion spending package in March that boosted both domestic and military spending, but said he was now determined to reduce spending.

"I made deals with the devil in order to get that done because we had to improve our military, our military was depleted," he said. "Get rid of the fat, get rid of the waste, and I'm sure you can do it, I'm sure everybody in this table can do it. It will have a huge impact."



Our military spends more than about the next 8 countries combined. We are never going to tackle our debt issues without drastically cutting out military spending. Out biggest threat is not a foreign power but our own spending.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by ATXn;D » Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:28 am

Maddog wrote:
ATXn;D wrote:
Maddog wrote:
ATXn;D wrote:More anonymous sources? :roll:

And who has the power of the purse? Oh yeah, congress.



No doubt Congress is full of spendthrifts. Trump made no attempt to cut spending, nor is he remotely interested in trying.



Uh huh :roll:


Trump orders Cabinet to cut agency budgets by 5 percent

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washin ... f_amp=true





Yes, he did do that, but his increase in defense spending dwarfed it. Trump has made some decent inroads in deregulation and cutting through the government bullshit. But he is not a deficit hawk by any stretch of the imagination. That's why the deficit is going up at a rate no different than when Obama was in office. It's not important to Trump, most republicans and all democrats.




Hit the lnk. He specifically addressed the defense issue. Im pretty sure you know the story.


Trump's order comes amid growing worry among conservatives about rising federal spending. He said he "made deals with the devil" before signing a $1.3 trillion spending package in March that boosted both domestic and military spending, but said he was now determined to reduce spending.

"I made deals with the devil in order to get that done because we had to improve our military, our military was depleted," he said. "Get rid of the fat, get rid of the waste, and I'm sure you can do it, I'm sure everybody in this table can do it. It will have a huge impact."

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Fletch » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:38 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
How much to you get a month? (roughly)

You'll never have a more efficient health service for the poor, or the many, all the time you prioritise profits over patients.



Sorta depends what you pay in. My mom gets about 2 grand a month, and of course most of her medical bills are paid. She also has a supplemental plan that covers other things that medicare doesn't cover, or gives her higher end facilities that other's wouldn't get. Nothing fancy, just not the bottom of the barrel.

I pay about $500/month for insurance that really doesn't cover everything but protects me from something catostrophic.


So you don't get anything then. Is it age related or income related?

People on medicaid/care get money even if they don't need treatment that month?

Or is it pay for the treatment when you need it?

All the time you have this sort of thing@

Hospital Tells Woman To Use ‘GoFundMe’ For Her Own Heart Transplant — Yes, Really

Image

https://www.scarymommy.com/heart-transplant-gofundme/

You'll never get costs under control. Pay what they tell you or die is hardly a healthcare system suitable for a developed, modern nation.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Cactus Jack » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:38 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.

Good news MD - Single Payer is a more efficient system.

Rather than having thousands of different products being marketed, sold - so having commissions paid, claimed against, disputed etc etc etc you get one customer saying OK hip replacements cost £8,500 -roughly $11,000 - instead of a market for replacement hips that drives up the cost to $31,500. The customer - who in this case is a tax payer who pays for healthcare as a part of general taxation - is $20,000 to the good.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:31 pm

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.


How much to you get a month? (roughly)

You'll never have a more efficient health service for the poor, or the many, all the time you prioritise profits over patients.



Sorta depends what you pay in. My mom gets about 2 grand a month, and of course most of her medical bills are paid. She also has a supplemental plan that covers other things that medicare doesn't cover, or gives her higher end facilities that other's wouldn't get. Nothing fancy, just not the bottom of the barrel.

I pay about $500/month for insurance that really doesn't cover everything but protects me from something catostrophic.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Fletch » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:26 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.


How much to you get a month? (roughly)

You'll never have a more efficient health service for the poor, or the many, all the time you prioritise profits over patients.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:22 pm

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?


Social Security and Medicare goes to everyone, even the wealthy. It will need to be means tested at some point because there isn't enough money to cover everyone anymore. Medicaid is for the poor, and I can accept a safety net for them. But even then, I want a far more efficient system to serve them.

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Fletch » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:17 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.


Do you not believe taxes should go towards helping the less fortunate and the (poor) sick?

Re: Trump, on a Future Debt Crisis: 'Yeah, But I Won't Be Here'

Post by Maddog » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:12 pm

Fletch wrote:US To Send $7,000 Per MINUTE To Israel

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/50705.htm



That and the MIC spending, nope, can't see where any savings could be made...


We spend that much on toilet paper for government workers.

The problem with our deficit is military spending, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid. Until someone tackles those budget problems, messing with foreign aid isn't going to solve anything.

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