The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

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Expand view Topic review: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:22 pm

banana chewits wrote:us v uk income tax & salary.

$75,000 us salary is approx £57,700 uk salary.

assuming all things equal for both us & uk earner this is the tax burden for the earner only (employer contributions not included)

in lucky old texas (with no state income tax) total federal & fica income tax on $75,000.00 amounts to 20.7% ($15,537.00) leaving a net salary of $59,463.00 (79.3%)

in poor old new york state, total federal, fica & state income tax on $75,000.00 amounts to 26.1% ($19,552.00) leaving a net salary of $55,448.00 (73.9%)

in the uk, total income tax & national insurance on £57,700.00 amounts to 28.1% (£16,218.12) leaving a net salary of £41,481.88 (71.9%)

the us pays a much higher rate of annual property tax than the uk pays in council tax, but the lucky us tax payer can deduct property tax and state & local general sales tax from their taxable income, unlike the uk.

happy to be corrected by maddog on this. :smilin:

sources for generating income tax figures: us = https://neuvoo.com/tax-calculator/ & uk = https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php



All that sounds about right.

And we have a sales tax of about 8% as do most states. Food and medicine are exempt.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by banana chewits » Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:39 am

us v uk income tax & salary.

$75,000 us salary is approx £57,700 uk salary.

assuming all things equal for both us & uk earner this is the tax burden for the earner only (employer contributions not included)

in lucky old texas (with no state income tax) total federal & fica income tax on $75,000.00 amounts to 20.7% ($15,537.00) leaving a net salary of $59,463.00 (79.3%)

in poor old new york state, total federal, fica & state income tax on $75,000.00 amounts to 26.1% ($19,552.00) leaving a net salary of $55,448.00 (73.9%)

in the uk, total income tax & national insurance on £57,700.00 amounts to 28.1% (£16,218.12) leaving a net salary of £41,481.88 (71.9%)

the us pays a much higher rate of annual property tax than the uk pays in council tax, but the lucky us tax payer can deduct property tax and state & local general sales tax from their taxable income, unlike the uk.

happy to be corrected by maddog on this. :smilin:

sources for generating income tax figures: us = https://neuvoo.com/tax-calculator/ & uk = https://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/salary.php

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by jra » Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:22 am

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:


Mostly, but you seem to be paying twice for very little, if anything.



How much are you paying for what you are getting?


UK income tax rates and brackets for 2019-20

Tax Rate (Band) Taxable Income Tax Rate
Personal allowance Up to £12,500 0%
Basic rate £12,501 to £50,000 20%
Higher rate £50,001 to £150,000 40%
Additional rate Over £150,000 45%

No healthcare insurance, some things we are charged twice for. ie used to be part of national health, now not such as dentistry and glasses, though some NHS dentists still exist.

Many other public services have suffered from the increased cost, lesser service that is privatisation and some of the outsourcing companies have gone bust leaving vulnerable people without care or facilities. The taxpayer has to pick up the pieces of that, and the bill for it, whilst the company directors disappear in to the distance.

We also get a state pension at the age designated by government (it's gone up and is going up further)

Prescriptions are free for pensioners and children, some other groups as well. Seeing a Doctor is free, getting tests done is free, x=ray, cat scans and even the most complicated cases get treated without charge on the NHS.

It used to be far better here with council houses, free eye care, free dentistry and benefits at least keeping pace with inflation. That's all gone now and youngsters can't afford to buy a house these days. There used to be all sorts of public services, parks, youth clubs, swimming pools, libraries, job centres with actual real jobs advertised in them, good schools with playing fields. Now sold off for building and schools given to private edu-corps who are milking the system with no actual improvement. They too will end up having to be rescued by tax payers whilst the directors ride off in the sunset.


You'll have to give more detailed information about that, as you've made a rather generalized blanket statement there.

Regarding taxation. Have you factored in the average tax rates at source are lower in the US than in the UK, so look at their medical insurance as an indirect tax.

You also forgot to mention anything about VAT, National Insurance, Council Tax and duty charges that we all pay (between them) in the UK.

Basically, what I'm saying is the tax burden in the UK is higher than in the US (at least at first glance), plus on average they earn more (GDP/capita) than we do.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/ ... ckets.aspx

US GDP/capita = approx $59,495
UK GDP/capita = approx $43,620

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... y_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Mon Mar 11, 2019 12:56 am

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:


Mostly, but you seem to be paying twice for very little, if anything.



How much are you paying for what you are getting?


UK income tax rates and brackets for 2019-20

Tax Rate (Band) Taxable Income Tax Rate
Personal allowance Up to £12,500 0%
Basic rate £12,501 to £50,000 20%
Higher rate £50,001 to £150,000 40%
Additional rate Over £150,000 45%

No healthcare insurance, some things we are charged twice for. ie used to be part of national health, now not such as dentistry and glasses, though some NHS dentists still exist.

Many other public services have suffered from the increased cost, lesser service that is privatisation and some of the outsourcing companies have gone bust leaving vulnerable people without care or facilities. The taxpayer has to pick up the pieces of that, and the bill for it, whilst the company directors disappear in to the distance.

We also get a state pension at the age designated by government (it's gone up and is going up further)

Prescriptions are free for pensioners and children, some other groups as well. Seeing a Doctor is free, getting tests done is free, x=ray, cat scans and even the most complicated cases get treated without charge on the NHS.

It used to be far better here with council houses, free eye care, free dentistry and benefits at least keeping pace with inflation. That's all gone now and youngsters can't afford to buy a house these days. There used to be all sorts of public services, parks, youth clubs, swimming pools, libraries, job centres with actual real jobs advertised in them, good schools with playing fields. Now sold off for building and schools given to private edu-corps who are milking the system with no actual improvement. They too will end up having to be rescued by tax payers whilst the directors ride off in the sunset.


How much are YOU paying?

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Fletch » Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:34 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:


Mostly, but you seem to be paying twice for very little, if anything.



How much are you paying for what you are getting?


UK income tax rates and brackets for 2019-20

Tax Rate (Band) Taxable Income Tax Rate
Personal allowance Up to £12,500 0%
Basic rate £12,501 to £50,000 20%
Higher rate £50,001 to £150,000 40%
Additional rate Over £150,000 45%

No healthcare insurance, some things we are charged twice for. ie used to be part of national health, now not such as dentistry and glasses, though some NHS dentists still exist.

Many other public services have suffered from the increased cost, lesser service that is privatisation and some of the outsourcing companies have gone bust leaving vulnerable people without care or facilities. The taxpayer has to pick up the pieces of that, and the bill for it, whilst the company directors disappear in to the distance.

We also get a state pension at the age designated by government (it's gone up and is going up further)

Prescriptions are free for pensioners and children, some other groups as well. Seeing a Doctor is free, getting tests done is free, x=ray, cat scans and even the most complicated cases get treated without charge on the NHS.

It used to be far better here with council houses, free eye care, free dentistry and benefits at least keeping pace with inflation. That's all gone now and youngsters can't afford to buy a house these days. There used to be all sorts of public services, parks, youth clubs, swimming pools, libraries, job centres with actual real jobs advertised in them, good schools with playing fields. Now sold off for building and schools given to private edu-corps who are milking the system with no actual improvement. They too will end up having to be rescued by tax payers whilst the directors ride off in the sunset.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:52 pm

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:


Mostly, but you seem to be paying twice for very little, if anything.



How much are you paying for what you are getting?

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Fletch » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:46 pm

Maddog wrote:You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:


Mostly, but you seem to be paying twice for very little, if anything.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:44 pm

You mean if you pay taxes the government will provide some services?

So you're paying for what you're getting?

Is that how this works? :more beer:

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Fletch » Sun Mar 10, 2019 6:36 pm

Maddog wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
wutang wrote:
Maddog wrote:But ambulance rides are pretty expensive because lots of people don't pay them.



Which is surely an argument in favour of universal healthcare? those people would then be paying towards their medical costs through their taxes.



I guess it depends on if you are the one paying. One thing about our convoluted system is that we have extremely fast response times. Really our emergency care is as good as anyone. If you have a collision on the highway, 30 miles outside of town, you will likely get a helicopter ride and be in the ER faster than anywhere on the planet.

It might bankrupt you, and our preventive care is lacking for people who are not quite poor, but not wealthy enough for good insurance.

Or the self employed like me. I pay $500 per month with a $5000 per year deductible. So I basically self pay and have a policy for if the shit hits the fan.


$500 a month for health insurance so how much per month do you pay in tax?

Now you're just being nosy. Let's say a lot more than that especially when you figure all of the federal, state and local taxes we pay.


You appear to pay a lot of tax but then have to pay for any public service on top. As I've always said, the corporates making money at both ends, government funding plus charging the individuals. You have the worst of all worlds.

That $500 per month is wasted. It just goes in to the pockets of the few every month you don't need healthcare. When you do, you are hit with a $5000 surcharge anyway and might not be covered for your particular injury/ailment. With a true public health system, that money would go towards the system then you'd be free to use it at the time needed.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:12 pm

Health insurance coverage in the United States is provided by several public and private sources. During 2016, the U.S. population overall was approximately 325 million, with 53 million persons 65 years of age and over covered by the federal Medicare program. The 272 million non-institutional persons under age 65 either obtained their coverage from employer-based (155 million) or non-employer based (90 million) sources, or were uninsured (27 million).[1] Approximately 15 million military personnel received coverage through the Veteran's Administration.[2] During the year 2016, 91.2% of Americans had health insurance coverage.


I know it's wiki, but it's a fairly good summary.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:04 pm

Fletch wrote:
Maddog wrote:
wutang wrote:
Maddog wrote:But ambulance rides are pretty expensive because lots of people don't pay them.



Which is surely an argument in favour of universal healthcare? those people would then be paying towards their medical costs through their taxes.



I guess it depends on if you are the one paying. One thing about our convoluted system is that we have extremely fast response times. Really our emergency care is as good as anyone. If you have a collision on the highway, 30 miles outside of town, you will likely get a helicopter ride and be in the ER faster than anywhere on the planet.

It might bankrupt you, and our preventive care is lacking for people who are not quite poor, but not wealthy enough for good insurance.

Or the self employed like me. I pay $500 per month with a $5000 per year deductible. So I basically self pay and have a policy for if the shit hits the fan.


$500 a month for health insurance so how much per month do you pay in tax?

Now you're just being nosy. Let's say a lot more than that especially when you figure all of the federal, state and local taxes we pay.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Maddog » Sun Mar 10, 2019 5:02 pm

So, if you're earning a reasonable wage you've got enough to pay for private health insurance, as 'at source taxation' is lower in the US than it is in the UK and if you're on a very low income then 'the state' foots the bill. Is that correct?


More or less. One way or another 90% of Americans have some sort of coverage. But most Americans don't buy insurance per say. It's part of their compensation at work.

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by Fletch » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:20 pm

Maddog wrote:
wutang wrote:
Maddog wrote:But ambulance rides are pretty expensive because lots of people don't pay them.



Which is surely an argument in favour of universal healthcare? those people would then be paying towards their medical costs through their taxes.



I guess it depends on if you are the one paying. One thing about our convoluted system is that we have extremely fast response times. Really our emergency care is as good as anyone. If you have a collision on the highway, 30 miles outside of town, you will likely get a helicopter ride and be in the ER faster than anywhere on the planet.

It might bankrupt you, and our preventive care is lacking for people who are not quite poor, but not wealthy enough for good insurance.

Or the self employed like me. I pay $500 per month with a $5000 per year deductible. So I basically self pay and have a policy for if the shit hits the fan.


$500 a month for health insurance so how much per month do you pay in tax?

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by jra » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:51 am

Maddog wrote:
jra wrote:
Maddog wrote:
jra wrote:
wutang wrote:
I agree. But if this was America your friend would now owe tens of thousands and would be close to bankruptcy - that's if he got the treatment at all.


That depends on their private medical insurance. Plus you have to factor in how max tax paid at source and average salary when compared with the UK.


Yup. Most Americans get insurance as part of an employment package. Even folks who dont make a lot of money get it through work, or get most of it paid through work.

I don't know what Wu or your friend does for work, but odds are they would have pretty good coverage paid for by their employer.


What if you're not employed though? According to a quick Google, that's 4% of the US population or around 13 million people. In the UK everybody gets free medical treatment irrespective of income (at the point of need) on the NHS with a few exceptions like dental treatment, prescriptions and glasses, unless you fall into certain groups, e.g. claiming some types of benefits, are under the age of 16 IIRC or above a certain age.


If your not employed or very poor you get Medicaid. It covers pretty much everything. And we have county hospitals that take care of folks that can't pay.

Our problem is preventative care. A certain percentage get very little or none and only get treated when it's an emergency. That gets expensive.


So, if you're earning a reasonable wage you've got enough to pay for private health insurance, as 'at source taxation' is lower in the US than it is in the UK and if you're on a very low income then 'the state' foots the bill. Is that correct?

Re: The American Catastrophe: Drug, Alcohol, And Suicide

Post by jra » Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:43 am

LordRaven wrote:
jra wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Bit late to start worrying about the NHS being privatised it's already happened in large part.
How much does Virgin Care now own?
Cameron told Branson to leave the NHS signage up because the public weren't ready for the truth yet.

AnE and out of hours doctors are already privatised in most hospitals.
Few took enough fucking notice of all the things many of us posted accusing us of posting links from dodgy fake news sites no matter how many times we said the purveyors of fake news are the BBC the Guardian and all the fucking rest of the MSM.
The government pay these private companies to run these things and the public for now remain blissfully unaware of what's happened .... for now.
When this government say they are putting more money into the NHS it is sadly going on Bransons balloons yachts islands and weed.
To fucking late now.


I must have missed that memo, because my text messages for my physiotherapy on the NHS come from Virgin Care, not the NHS.

Having said that, a fair few things NHS have been outsourced to private organisations.


Physio? I hope it works out for you.


Thanks Raven.

It's nothing too serious in the scheme of things, but I've suffered from back problems (ever since I trapped a spinal nerve in my early adulthood), so not too much bending down and lifting heavy weights, plus knee problems down to wear and tear from hill walking carrying heavy rucksacks up steep hills/mountains etc.

So, basically, it's a matter of exercises in order to strengthen relevant muscles.

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