by Cannydc » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:35 pm
Stooo wrote:Cannydc wrote:Fletch wrote:Cannydc wrote:Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).
Stick to your CTs Fletch.
We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.
I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.
Bunkum.
It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.
I've attended to a deceased person once paramedics had determined death. It was on a Sunday and I was on call. We had to wait for an hour for them to show up.
Unlucky. This is from an ex-paramedic, just found.
"In practice, yes, paramedics declare death and note the time. Everywhere I have worked, though, a physician's name needed to be on the paperwork, so I'd make a call that went like this,
"Dr. Jones at [Base Hospital]."
"Hi, Dr. Jones. This is Paramedic Holmes with [EMS Agency/Unit]. I'm calling for a pronouncement of death. We are on scene with a 75-year-old female last seen three days ago by her daughter. Daughter came to check on her today and found her deceased on the bedroom floor. I find the patient supine, cold and mottled with dependent lividity. Obvious rigor in the extremities and jaw. Pupils are fixed and dilated. Absent heart tones. Asystole in all three leads. No CPR provided."
glances at the clock "Time of death 1643."
So it can happen, but in conjunction with a conversation with an off site doctor, and his signature must appear on the paperwork.
Further down....
"...once in awhile a doctor would have cold feet about the pronouncement and order the patient brought to the hospital. This is a colossal mess, especially if you've already told the family that their loved one is dead and you haven't been providing any care."
Not sure what US rules are though, with ref to Epstein.
https://www.quora.com/Can-paramedics-de ... e-of-death
[quote="Stooo"][quote="Cannydc"][quote="Fletch"][quote="Cannydc"]Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).
Stick to your CTs Fletch.
We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.[/quote]
I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.
Bunkum.[/quote]
It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.[/quote]
I've attended to a deceased person once paramedics had determined death. It was on a Sunday and I was on call. We had to wait for an hour for them to show up.[/quote]
Unlucky. This is from an ex-paramedic, just found.
"In practice, yes, paramedics declare death and note the time. Everywhere I have worked, though, a physician's name needed to be on the paperwork, so I'd make a call that went like this,
"Dr. Jones at [Base Hospital]."
"Hi, Dr. Jones. This is Paramedic Holmes with [EMS Agency/Unit]. I'm calling for a pronouncement of death. We are on scene with a 75-year-old female last seen three days ago by her daughter. Daughter came to check on her today and found her deceased on the bedroom floor. I find the patient supine, cold and mottled with dependent lividity. Obvious rigor in the extremities and jaw. Pupils are fixed and dilated. Absent heart tones. Asystole in all three leads. No CPR provided."
glances at the clock "Time of death 1643."
So it can happen, but in conjunction with a conversation with an off site doctor, and his signature must appear on the paperwork.
Further down....
"...once in awhile a doctor would have cold feet about the pronouncement and order the patient brought to the hospital. This is a colossal mess, especially if you've already told the family that their loved one is dead and you haven't been providing any care."
Not sure what US rules are though, with ref to Epstein.
https://www.quora.com/Can-paramedics-declare-time-of-death