Dogs Sleeping Forum

by **Cactus Jack** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:43 pm

Cannydc wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Perhaps you should look at which way the SNP actually voted, and why?

Bunch of arseholes! They have changed their tune for purely political gain, very hypocritical and Gove made them look fucking idiots today in HOC.

Be honest - Gove couldn't make the cast of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" look like idiots.

And I do wish he would wipe that white powder from round his nose before he speaks.

There is a Brexit bonus for people like me.

As an Irish citizen with an Irish passport we retain our freedom of movement which means that we are more attractive to our employers who want to trade in Europe.

As an example take a lorry driver. A British driver can deliver a shipment to one destination, make a pick up from that destination and then come back. An Irish driver, or a Polish driver living in the UK, can drive to as many destinations in Europe as may be required dropping off and picking up multiple orders and shipments with no restrictions whatsoever.

The effect is completely obvious. Hauliers are going to realise it's best to hire drivers who are EU citizens.

And that's not just the case with drivers Financial Advisors whose qualifications come from the pre-Brexit period will still be qualified to see and advise clients in Europe where their British counterparts will not. An accountant auditing a business with subsidiaries in the EU will be much better served by an EU citizen in living in the UK than by a British Citizen who may have to pay registration fees and retake key professional exams after a brief transition period.

Brexit has reduced the chances of British workers to get jobs with firms that trade in the EU.

by **Cannydc** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 8:11 pm

LordRaven wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Perhaps you should look at which way the SNP actually voted, and why?

Bunch of arseholes! They have changed their tune for purely political gain, very hypocritical and Gove made them look fucking idiots today in HOC.

Be honest - Gove couldn't make the cast of "One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest" look like idiots.

And I do wish he would wipe that white powder from round his nose before he speaks.

by **MungoBrush** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:41 pm

Cannydc wrote:Perhaps you should look at which way the SNP actually voted, and why?

Only one Labour MP, Bell Riberio-Addy, voted against,
but 36 other Labour MPs abstained.
The SNP,
the Lib Dems,
Plaid Cymru,
Northern Irish DUP MPs and
the Greens' single representative

also voted against.

Also the deal was passed unanimously by the European Parliament

So it looks like Nicola Sturgeon is out of step with Europe and by herself out in the cold.

by **LordRaven** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:38 pm

Cannydc wrote:Perhaps you should look at which way the SNP actually voted, and why?

Bunch of arseholes! They have changed their tune for purely political gain, very hypocritical and Gove made them look fucking idiots today in HOC.

by **Cannydc** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:35 pm

Perhaps you should look at which way the SNP actually voted, and why?

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/932

https://votes.parliament.uk/Votes/Commons/Division/933

by **MungoBrush** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 7:11 pm

Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:SNP will vote against, according to Sturgeon.

Sturgeon - once again - displaying her absolute hypocrisy

As political journeys go, it’s akin to Jeremy Corbyn quitting his allotment to grow marrows on an Israeli settlement.
Nicola Sturgeon, a lifelong pro-European since June 24, 2016, has decreed that the SNP will vote against the free trade pact agreed by the UK and the EU.

This is quite the turnaround.
Sturgeon has previously said ‘a no-deal Brexit is a catastrophic idea’, warned of ‘the dire economic consequences of a no-deal Brexit’, described ‘the nightmare scenario of a no-deal Brexit’ and urged the UK Government ‘not to countenance in any way a no-deal Brexit’.

She personally claimed that no-deal ‘could push 130,000 people in Scotland into poverty’ and touted an assertion by Dame Sally Davies that, in Sturgeon’s words, ‘it cannot be guaranteed that people will not die because of potential medicine shortages and the impact of a no-deal Brexit’.

Last September, she informed Holyrood: ‘SNP MPs will do everything possible to stop the UK crashing out of the European Union without a deal.’

Barely three weeks ago, she said that Scottish food and drink businesses would be ‘hit particularly hard if there is no deal’, telling MSPs:
‘The consequences of that for Scotland’s businesses could, and will, be devastating, with consumers also being badly affected.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... xit-u-turn

She isn't voting for no-deal, she is voting against a deal safe in the knowledge that it will pass anyway as all the Tories (including, amazingly, the puffball ERG who rolled over) and Labour who campaigned for a deal, will vote for it.

It places her in an enviable position in Scotland, safe in the knowledge that she was able to reject what is turning out to be a dog of a deal.

There's something seriously wrong with your thinking

Nicola Sturgeon

SNP MPs will do everything possible to stop the UK crashing out of the European Union without a deal

Nicola Sturgeon has decreed that the SNP will vote against the free trade pact agreed by the UK and the EU.

by **Cannydc** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 5:00 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:SNP will vote against, according to Sturgeon.

Sturgeon - once again - displaying her absolute hypocrisy

As political journeys go, it’s akin to Jeremy Corbyn quitting his allotment to grow marrows on an Israeli settlement.
Nicola Sturgeon, a lifelong pro-European since June 24, 2016, has decreed that the SNP will vote against the free trade pact agreed by the UK and the EU.

This is quite the turnaround.
Sturgeon has previously said ‘a no-deal Brexit is a catastrophic idea’, warned of ‘the dire economic consequences of a no-deal Brexit’, described ‘the nightmare scenario of a no-deal Brexit’ and urged the UK Government ‘not to countenance in any way a no-deal Brexit’.

She personally claimed that no-deal ‘could push 130,000 people in Scotland into poverty’ and touted an assertion by Dame Sally Davies that, in Sturgeon’s words, ‘it cannot be guaranteed that people will not die because of potential medicine shortages and the impact of a no-deal Brexit’.

Last September, she informed Holyrood: ‘SNP MPs will do everything possible to stop the UK crashing out of the European Union without a deal.’

Barely three weeks ago, she said that Scottish food and drink businesses would be ‘hit particularly hard if there is no deal’, telling MSPs:
‘The consequences of that for Scotland’s businesses could, and will, be devastating, with consumers also being badly affected.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... xit-u-turn

She isn't voting for no-deal, she is voting against a deal safe in the knowledge that it will pass anyway as all the Tories (including, amazingly, the puffball ERG who rolled over) and Labour who campaigned for a deal, will vote for it.

It places her in an enviable position in Scotland, safe in the knowledge that she was able to reject what is turning out to be a dog of a deal.

by **Cactus Jack** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 1:14 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:SNP will vote against, according to Sturgeon.

Sturgeon - once again - displaying her absolute hypocrisy

As political journeys go, it’s akin to Jeremy Corbyn quitting his allotment to grow marrows on an Israeli settlement.
Nicola Sturgeon, a lifelong pro-European since June 24, 2016, has decreed that the SNP will vote against the free trade pact agreed by the UK and the EU.

This is quite the turnaround.
Sturgeon has previously said ‘a no-deal Brexit is a catastrophic idea’, warned of ‘the dire economic consequences of a no-deal Brexit’, described ‘the nightmare scenario of a no-deal Brexit’ and urged the UK Government ‘not to countenance in any way a no-deal Brexit’.

She personally claimed that no-deal ‘could push 130,000 people in Scotland into poverty’ and touted an assertion by Dame Sally Davies that, in Sturgeon’s words, ‘it cannot be guaranteed that people will not die because of potential medicine shortages and the impact of a no-deal Brexit’.

Last September, she informed Holyrood: ‘SNP MPs will do everything possible to stop the UK crashing out of the European Union without a deal.’

Barely three weeks ago, she said that Scottish food and drink businesses would be ‘hit particularly hard if there is no deal’, telling MSPs:
‘The consequences of that for Scotland’s businesses could, and will, be devastating, with consumers also being badly affected.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... xit-u-turn

With Labour voting for the deal she's making a political judgement on how Scotland will vote next May.

It's a sound enough judgement, any increase in the SNP vote will further delegitimise the union and, as was predicted in 2016, lead to the break up of the UK.

Northern Ireland has been de facto given up and it looks like Scotland is pulling further away.

by **MungoBrush** » Wed Dec 30, 2020 12:45 pm

Cannydc wrote:SNP will vote against, according to Sturgeon.

Sturgeon - once again - displaying her absolute hypocrisy

As political journeys go, it’s akin to Jeremy Corbyn quitting his allotment to grow marrows on an Israeli settlement.
Nicola Sturgeon, a lifelong pro-European since June 24, 2016, has decreed that the SNP will vote against the free trade pact agreed by the UK and the EU.

This is quite the turnaround.
Sturgeon has previously said ‘a no-deal Brexit is a catastrophic idea’, warned of ‘the dire economic consequences of a no-deal Brexit’, described ‘the nightmare scenario of a no-deal Brexit’ and urged the UK Government ‘not to countenance in any way a no-deal Brexit’.

She personally claimed that no-deal ‘could push 130,000 people in Scotland into poverty’ and touted an assertion by Dame Sally Davies that, in Sturgeon’s words, ‘it cannot be guaranteed that people will not die because of potential medicine shortages and the impact of a no-deal Brexit’.

Last September, she informed Holyrood: ‘SNP MPs will do everything possible to stop the UK crashing out of the European Union without a deal.’

Barely three weeks ago, she said that Scottish food and drink businesses would be ‘hit particularly hard if there is no deal’, telling MSPs:
‘The consequences of that for Scotland’s businesses could, and will, be devastating, with consumers also being badly affected.’

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the ... xit-u-turn

by **Cannydc** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 11:47 pm

Cactus Jack wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Meanwhile, the EU are close to agreeing a huge trade deal with China.

Access to Chinese markets - imagine how we would have benefitted. But hey! Trust in Truss!

That's not only good news for the EU.

As the UK has found trade with the EU is contingent on a number of criteria which include workers rights, environmental standards and product safety. By agreeing to those standards China agreeing to improve standards for workers and protect shared planet better.

This is a true story.

The company I worked for as Technician Engineer for 10 years sold around £4m goods a year to B+Q.

B+Q, as part of the contract we had with them, insisted that we went to our Chinese manufacturers, inspected their factories, checked working conditions, wages, and interviewed workers to ensure they were happy - then send a report to them.

Seems odd, looking back, but we did all that. The factory owners / bosses were well peeved but got a clean bill of health. That would be around 1998.

by **Cactus Jack** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:51 pm

Cannydc wrote:Meanwhile, the EU are close to agreeing a huge trade deal with China.

Access to Chinese markets - imagine how we would have benefitted. But hey! Trust in Truss!

That's not only good news for the EU.

As the UK has found trade with the EU is contingent on a number of criteria which include workers rights, environmental standards and product safety. By agreeing to those standards China agreeing to improve standards for workers and protect shared planet better.

by **Cannydc** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:43 am

Meanwhile, the EU are close to agreeing a huge trade deal with China.

Access to Chinese markets - imagine how we would have benefitted. But hey! Trust in Truss!

by **Cannydc** » Tue Dec 29, 2020 10:41 am

Cactus Jack wrote:The thing to remember about Brexit is that while it was the British people who voted on whether we leave it was Boris Johnson's government, a government he had crafted in his own image to deliver his personal vision of Brexit, who decided on how we leave.

The choice facing MPs when they return to vote on this government's deal isn't this deal or some better alternative it's this deal or the even worse scenario of no deal at all.

The hard Brexiters in the ERG are already mustering their forces to rebel and I have little doubt there will be some in the Labour Party, probably quite a few in the DUP and possibly a few SNP MPs too who will vote against this deal either out of conviction or because they just want to obstruct the Tories.

It should be clear, from day one, that voting for this deal is a case of supporting the deal it's a case of opposing no deal and the utter chaos that would bring. Supporting this deal isn't about politics or opposition it's about being a party ready for government that can make uncomfortable choices.

A future Labour government can certainly look at creating institutions that help UK businesses to align with EU standards to promore trade with the EU. In the medium term it should look to forming a customs union covering both goods and services not leaving 80% of the UK economy floating in limbo. But for now voting for this deal is the least worst alternative and that is what Labour - as a future party of government for all of Britain - must do.

SNP will vote against, according to Sturgeon.

That leaves Labour in a difficult position.

1) Vote for the deal they campaigned for but see as pretty useless, and fail to leave the Tories owning it alone.

2) Vote against a deal they campaigned for, joining SNP and ERG to give us No-Deal!! That would be an unforgivable act of harm to the UK economy.

3) The dreaded abstain - sit on the fence and offer ammunition to the Tories for the next election (Indecision, lack of leadership)

In an ideal world ALL opposition parties would collectively abstain, leaving Tories v. Tory rebels to highlight their divisions to the British people.

Sadly that won't happen.

by **Cactus Jack** » Mon Dec 28, 2020 8:35 pm

The thing to remember about Brexit is that while it was the British people who voted on whether we leave it was Boris Johnson's government, a government he had crafted in his own image to deliver his personal vision of Brexit, who decided on how we leave.

The choice facing MPs when they return to vote on this government's deal isn't this deal or some better alternative it's this deal or the even worse scenario of no deal at all.

The hard Brexiters in the ERG are already mustering their forces to rebel and I have little doubt there will be some in the Labour Party, probably quite a few in the DUP and possibly a few SNP MPs too who will vote against this deal either out of conviction or because they just want to obstruct the Tories.

It should be clear, from day one, that voting for this deal is a case of supporting the deal it's a case of opposing no deal and the utter chaos that would bring. Supporting this deal isn't about politics or opposition it's about being a party ready for government that can make uncomfortable choices.

A future Labour government can certainly look at creating institutions that help UK businesses to align with EU standards to promore trade with the EU. In the medium term it should look to forming a customs union covering both goods and services not leaving 80% of the UK economy floating in limbo. But for now voting for this deal is the least worst alternative and that is what Labour - as a future party of government for all of Britain - must do.

by **Stooo** » Tue Dec 01, 2020 8:22 pm

Grafenwalder wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Grafenwalder wrote:This was funny on todays Vine show. Batty ex-Brexit party MEP ends up clashing with James Max who himself is a Brexiteer!

phpBB [video]

I follow Joon and often chat to her, she's been a bit quiet recently

First i'd heard of her but she's absolutely bonkers, the garbage she was coming out with only to end up sniping at a fellow Brexiteer was hilarious!

I have nothing more to say... :oops:

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