Assisted Dying

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Expand view Topic review: Assisted Dying

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Lady Murasaki » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:30 am

Vam wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Sorry to read that NN. I don't believe the law is about putting people through torture, it's about protecting vulnerable people.


That should be a given.

If you felt confident that the interests of vulnerable people were being stringently protected, would you then be in favour of assisted euthanasia in principle?

@ Nic...sad news. He was no age, bless him. Your friend must be in bits, but I can certainly understand her sense of relief. I've been there, too....


Yes.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:24 pm

Guest wrote:
NastyNickers wrote:It's horrendously sad. I feel bloody awful for them. And to make matters worse, they've been trying to get him back home to manchester for a couple of months, but issues with transport and then transferring his care meant they had to stay in Kent. They are just desperate to get up north again now.

Why let people suffer in so much pain? Even a fatal cocktail in an IV once consciousness has been lost would be better than the days waiting for death. I think everyone who's seen someone come to the end of their cancer battle will understand that period. I've seen both that with my nanna, and on the flip side life support with my brother. With my brother we had the option of 'turning him off' before waiting for for his organs to give out. We did it on our terms, when we were ready. Which was only hours after we realised there was no more hope to be had. I'd rather that than waiting days.


you've raised an important point.

why is it acceptable, even encouraged, to switch life support off in cases of an unconscious relative where there's obviously no chance of recovery, but it's socially wrong to end the unbearable suffering of a conscious person where there's no chance of recovery and all they face is pain and agony until their dying breath?


Yes I'd like to know that. It's a very interesting point. Whoever they are, conscious or not, the same consideration should be given.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:21 pm

NastyNickers wrote:It's horrendously sad. I feel bloody awful for them. And to make matters worse, they've been trying to get him back home to manchester for a couple of months, but issues with transport and then transferring his care meant they had to stay in Kent. They are just desperate to get up north again now.

Why let people suffer in so much pain? Even a fatal cocktail in an IV once consciousness has been lost would be better than the days waiting for death. I think everyone who's seen someone come to the end of their cancer battle will understand that period. I've seen both that with my nanna, and on the flip side life support with my brother. With my brother we had the option of 'turning him off' before waiting for for his organs to give out. We did it on our terms, when we were ready. Which was only hours after we realised there was no more hope to be had. I'd rather that than waiting days.


Very sadly it appears that some people don't actually care about any of this, only about protecting the "vulnerable" and casting aspersions on our medical professionals. Unfortunately there are many of them and it will be a long struggle to law change. My heart goes out to those brave people who have challenged the law. Being forced to die in agony, strife, decomposition, in your own filth is inhuman and is against human rights. Laws are there to protect animals but sentient human beings aren't eligible for the same consideration.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:03 pm

NastyNickers wrote:It's horrendously sad. I feel bloody awful for them. And to make matters worse, they've been trying to get him back home to manchester for a couple of months, but issues with transport and then transferring his care meant they had to stay in Kent. They are just desperate to get up north again now.

Why let people suffer in so much pain? Even a fatal cocktail in an IV once consciousness has been lost would be better than the days waiting for death. I think everyone who's seen someone come to the end of their cancer battle will understand that period. I've seen both that with my nanna, and on the flip side life support with my brother. With my brother we had the option of 'turning him off' before waiting for for his organs to give out. We did it on our terms, when we were ready. Which was only hours after we realised there was no more hope to be had. I'd rather that than waiting days.


you've raised an important point.

why is it acceptable, even encouraged, to switch life support off in cases of an unconscious relative where there's obviously no chance of recovery, but it's socially wrong to end the unbearable suffering of a conscious person where there's no chance of recovery and all they face is pain and agony until their dying breath?

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by NastyNickers » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:54 am

It's horrendously sad. I feel bloody awful for them. And to make matters worse, they've been trying to get him back home to manchester for a couple of months, but issues with transport and then transferring his care meant they had to stay in Kent. They are just desperate to get up north again now.

Why let people suffer in so much pain? Even a fatal cocktail in an IV once consciousness has been lost would be better than the days waiting for death. I think everyone who's seen someone come to the end of their cancer battle will understand that period. I've seen both that with my nanna, and on the flip side life support with my brother. With my brother we had the option of 'turning him off' before waiting for for his organs to give out. We did it on our terms, when we were ready. Which was only hours after we realised there was no more hope to be had. I'd rather that than waiting days.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:31 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:Sorry to read that NN. I don't believe the law is about putting people through torture, it's about protecting vulnerable people.


How vulnerable do you have to be? Is decomposing while you are still alive not evidence enough that the law is actually about putting people through torture? I don't believe you actually care. :ooer:

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:26 am

NastyNickers wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Absolutely, I'm all for having the conversation. Is depression a mental health problem?


Of course it is.

This morning my best friends dad took his last breath at 51 years old. He has been fighting melonoma for 4 months. He was having surgery to try and repair and ease the necrosis across his chest. He got too poorly for that, though, and at the end of September the pain became too much and he got really agitated, so his pain needs were upped to deal with it. He hasn't been conscious since then.
They've sat by his bedside for two weeks, watching and waiting for him to die. The pain increased, the meds increased. I had my friend on the phone this morning sobbing because he's gone and all she feels is relief and guilt for being relieved.

Properly regulated with the right legislation and controls, none of them would have to have gone through this. Why would we put people through this kind of torture?


Another scenario the same as ours, so very, very sad to read this. This could be entirely avoided, it's a disgrace that this is allowed to happen in the 21st Century. My heart goes out to your friends family. There should be no guilt in relief, the avalanche of grief and anger will hit home soon enough.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Vam » Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:22 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:Sorry to read that NN. I don't believe the law is about putting people through torture, it's about protecting vulnerable people.


That should be a given.

If you felt confident that the interests of vulnerable people were being stringently protected, would you then be in favour of assisted euthanasia in principle?

@ Nic...sad news. He was no age, bless him. Your friend must be in bits, but I can certainly understand her sense of relief. I've been there, too....

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Lady Murasaki » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:37 am

Sorry to read that NN. I don't believe the law is about putting people through torture, it's about protecting vulnerable people.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by NastyNickers » Wed Oct 11, 2017 10:07 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:Absolutely, I'm all for having the conversation. Is depression a mental health problem?


Of course it is.

This morning my best friends dad took his last breath at 51 years old. He has been fighting melonoma for 4 months. He was having surgery to try and repair and ease the necrosis across his chest. He got too poorly for that, though, and at the end of September the pain became too much and he got really agitated, so his pain needs were upped to deal with it. He hasn't been conscious since then.
They've sat by his bedside for two weeks, watching and waiting for him to die. The pain increased, the meds increased. I had my friend on the phone this morning sobbing because he's gone and all she feels is relief and guilt for being relieved.

Properly regulated with the right legislation and controls, none of them would have to have gone through this. Why would we put people through this kind of torture?

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:18 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Vam wrote:Guest...you are, without a doubt, the 'star' of this thread - even though I know you couldn't care less about that.

You've expressed (far more eloquently than me!) the fundamental, core essence of the issues assisted euthanasia should be all about. I'm just sorry that you're having to do so as a result of the bitter, traumatic experience you've been through.


'Guest' may be correct about their own experience but 'guest' is very wrong about me.



'Guest', is not wrong about you. 'Guest', is able to read and what you are saying. So now you're intimating that your experiences somehow mirror those of 'Guest' and that you have experienced/witnessed months of unending physical suffering and the complete breakdown of a loved ones body. You must be made of stone if witnessing that has not spurred you on to fight for an end to it with all your being. I don't think you have witnessed anything like that at all.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Guest » Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:08 pm

Vam wrote:Guest...you are, without a doubt, the 'star' of this thread - even though I know you couldn't care less about that.

You've expressed (far more eloquently than me!) the fundamental, core essence of the issues assisted euthanasia should be all about. I'm just sorry that you're having to do so as a result of the bitter, traumatic experience you've been through.


Thank you Vam, I appreciate that.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Vam » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:30 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Vam wrote:Guest...you are, without a doubt, the 'star' of this thread - even though I know you couldn't care less about that.

You've expressed (far more eloquently than me!) the fundamental, core essence of the issues assisted euthanasia should be all about. I'm just sorry that you're having to do so as a result of the bitter, traumatic experience you've been through.


'Guest' may be correct about their own experience but 'guest' is very wrong about me.


Yes, I agree.

Perils of being online I guess - it can be hard sometimes to glean intentions, just based on the written word, and without being able to gauge body language and see the whites of people's eyes.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Lady Murasaki » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:23 am

Vam wrote:Guest...you are, without a doubt, the 'star' of this thread - even though I know you couldn't care less about that.

You've expressed (far more eloquently than me!) the fundamental, core essence of the issues assisted euthanasia should be all about. I'm just sorry that you're having to do so as a result of the bitter, traumatic experience you've been through.


'Guest' may be correct about their own experience but 'guest' is very wrong about me.

Re: Assisted Dying

Post by Vam » Tue Oct 10, 2017 11:15 am

Guest...you are, without a doubt, the 'star' of this thread - even though I know you couldn't care less about that.

You've expressed (far more eloquently than me!) the fundamental, core essence of the issues assisted euthanasia should be all about. I'm just sorry that you're having to do so as a result of the bitter, traumatic experience you've been through.

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