Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cactus Jack » Thu May 21, 2020 12:20 am

One of the things everyone knows, or should know, in Government is that governments get the heads up before everyone else, there are actual laws to ensure that civil servants and MPs don't use that to their advantage - in fact recently America has caught up with us and there's a bit of a to do about it.

The government knew in January that covid-19 could be a problem and in January there were voices saying that in every area preparations needed to be made. At the very mildest end, and I could but won't name the civil servant who ran the model, the DWP had scenarios where a significant but small number of people could be claiming sick pay for several months in covid recovery. At the level of scientist and officials everyone saw this coming and the consensus was that test, track and trace capacity normally used for food hygiene and sexual health needed to turned over entirely to CV19 - that was the bare minimum.

It didn't happen.

Somehow Boris got the idea that a disease with flu like symptoms and a flu like disease were the same thing and that mistake has proven fatal for thousands
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Thu May 21, 2020 7:57 am

MungoBrush wrote:
LordRaven wrote:So you wanted a Pandemic's worth of PPE Stored.
Then said Stockpile destroyed by specialists in 2018 because it's toxic and needs expensive specialists to get rid of it safely
Then a new 2 year stockpile loaded up?
And so on?
All sounds rather expensive Canny.
How are you proposing we pay for that as it is going to be darned expensive?

As for Churchill, have you heard of Gallipoli? Small wonder people ignored him.

p.s Canny I recall your Labour Government of 1947, 2 years after Churchill's Iron Curtain Speech, giving away scot free to Russia World Leading Rolls Royce Jet Engines that were back engineered and put in MIG 15's to kill our pilots in the Korean War --would you care to comment?


Some of the stockpiles that we in the UK had before the pandemic hit Europe were sold to China.
This is because they were old stocks - about to pass their use-by date and otherwise would have had to have been destroyed.

This is what people like DunnyCan don't understand
You can't just fill up the warehouse just in case
To maintain pandemic-levels of in-date stocks of PPE would require a massive budget to be continually destroying old stock and replacing it with fresh.

99% of the time - the stock would be destroyed.


"You can't just fill up the warehouse just in case"

You most certainly can - and should. Surely you have heard of "War Stock"?

In 2008 there was a similar exercise for a potential pandemic - the subsequent report cited the preparations as "excellent" with PPE and other kit, as well as planning for the pandemic seen as adequate and well prepared.

In 10 years the Tories allowed all stocks to run down, go out of date, deteriorate. Ask yourself this, Raven - how many nuclear weapons have we used in anger in the last 70 years? And how much has it cost us to buy and look after them JUST IN CASE?

It was their fault that we were unprepared, Raven.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Raggamuffin » Thu May 21, 2020 8:14 am

Guest wrote:
LordRaven wrote:One for Canny, I did stick this in the arms but as you are never there...

“If WWII happened today...

Can I have more clarity on the “Your country needs you” slogan, it’s too ambiguous

Why aren’t you doing enough to prevent these air raids?

Does the siren apply to everyone?

There are only male and female toilets in the air raid shelter and I don’t identify as either.

This respirator haversack has a leather strap and I’m a vegan.

Why cant I have almond milk on my ration card

I find the term “black out” offensive.

I find the lack of colour options within military uniforms oppressive.

Why didn’t we have stock piles of spitfires at the start of this conflict?”
:pmsl:



What thick as pig shit garbage did that crock of shite originate from!

Some far right Tory shite hole, lets blame the minorities again!

Like they blame the poorest and the sick for the countries problems as well.

You hypocritical arse :hand:


That has nothing to do with minorities, unless you're talking about vegans and people who don't identify as male or female. In any case, nobody was blaming them.

Actually, I wouldn't like a leather strap. :snooty:
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby MungoBrush » Thu May 21, 2020 10:22 am

Cannydc wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:Some of the stockpiles that we in the UK had before the pandemic hit Europe were sold to China.
This is because they were old stocks - about to pass their use-by date and otherwise would have had to have been destroyed.

This is what people like DunnyCan don't understand
You can't just fill up the warehouse just in case
To maintain pandemic-levels of in-date stocks of PPE would require a massive budget to be continually destroying old stock and replacing it with fresh.

99% of the time - the stock would be destroyed.


"You can't just fill up the warehouse just in case"

You most certainly can - and should. Surely you have heard of "War Stock"?

In 2008 there was a similar exercise for a potential pandemic - the subsequent report cited the preparations as "excellent" with PPE and other kit, as well as planning for the pandemic seen as adequate and well prepared.

In 10 years the Tories allowed all stocks to run down, go out of date, deteriorate. Ask yourself this, Raven - how many nuclear weapons have we used in anger in the last 70 years? And how much has it cost us to buy and look after them JUST IN CASE?

It was their fault that we were unprepared, Raven.


Asks DunnyCan:
how many nuclear weapons have we used in anger in the last 70 years


You have totally missed the point - again
There has not been a nuclear war BECAUSE we had a deterrent - MAD - ever heard of it?

Absolutely nothing to do with Covid-19 and PPE stockpiles
Unless of course you think that viruses know that we have stockpiles of PPE and this frightens them off?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Thu May 21, 2020 10:57 am

****Fails to address main point that Tory governments allowed vital PPE stocks to run down / become obsolete***
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby MungoBrush » Thu May 21, 2020 2:38 pm

Cannydc wrote:****Fails to address main point that Tory governments allowed vital PPE stocks to run down / become obsolete***


Prove it
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cactus Jack » Thu May 21, 2020 3:25 pm

Cannydc wrote:****Fails to address main point that Tory governments allowed vital PPE stocks to run down / become obsolete***

As proved by the extraordinary death count.

So high now that the comparisons with other countries that were a part of the daily briefing for over seven weeks are 'no longer helpful'
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Thu May 21, 2020 5:52 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:****Fails to address main point that Tory governments allowed vital PPE stocks to run down / become obsolete***


Prove it


2009 Report - The 2009 Influenza Pandemic, An independent review of the UK response to the 2009 influenza pandemic.

The four nations’ health ministers, on behalf of the UK government and devolved administrations, requested that I review the strategic decisions made and the way in which all four nations and government departmentsworked together to develop a UK-wide strategy to manage the domestic consequences of the pandemic.
My review took place between March and July 2010. The UK’s current central government crisis management arrangements have been in place since 2002, and have been tested in various crises and exercises and refined through those experiences. The pre-pandemic planning, set out in Pandemic flu: A national framework for responding to an influenza pandemic, ensured that many decisions had already been made in principle prior to the pandemic and that key personnel had already had the opportunity to work together. Key issues, approaches and decisions were outlined in the National Framework to ensure that the UK was able to make decisions rapidly when required.
The majority of the evidence revealed as a result of this process leads me to judge that, overall, the UK response was highly satisfactory. The planning for
a pandemic was well developed, the personnel involved were fully prepared, the scientific advice provided was expert, communication was excellent, the NHS and public health services right across the UK and their suppliers responded splendidly and the public response was calm and collaborative.


https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... review.pdf

2014 Report - Getting behind the Curve? Is the new NHS ready for Pandemic Flu?

There appear to be new difficulties from top to bottom, from central policymaking, through loss of expertise resulting from the substantial staffing and
organisational changes caused by the re-organisation, down to the ability to deliver at local level.


No alarm bells?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... idance.pdf

The government failed to buy crucial protective equipment to cope with a pandemic, a BBC investigation has found.

There were no gowns, visors, swabs or body bags in the government's pandemic stockpile when Covid-19 reached the UK.

The expert committee that advises the government on pandemics, the New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (Nervtag), recommended the purchase of gowns last June.

Gowns are currently one of the items in shortest supply in the UK and they are now difficult to source because of the global shortage of PPE.

Doctors and nurses have complained that there are also shortages of the life-saving FFP3 respirator masks.

Panorama has discovered that millions of FFP3 respirator masks are unaccounted for.

There were 33 million on the original 2009 procurement list for the stockpile, but only 12 million have been handed out.

The government refuses to explain where the other masks have gone.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-52440641

So, what more proof do you need ?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Fri May 22, 2020 8:37 pm

Oh dear - it sounds like our favourite SPAD, Dominic Cummings, broke lockdown restrictions to travel 250 miles to where his parents live.

And will he resign / get sacked?

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... r-22072579
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Sat May 23, 2020 3:44 pm

Of interest - something I believe I mentioned on here, another forum I use asked the same question and got a dozen saying yes.

Fergus Walsh
@BBCFergusWalsh

It seems like lots and lots of people reckon they had coronavirus in December in the UK. I will investigate. Meanwhile, any researchers out there who can help and are doing retrospective studies, please get in touch


And a few replies;

ATsang
@AOfTsang
Good friend (young and fit) returned from travel to Indonesia in December and was brutally I'll over Christmas/new year, kept having to go in and out of a&e. Diagnosed as pneumonia. But she's pretty sure now it was Covid 19. I don't believe " first case" was Chinese tourist!


Properly-Forensic Democrat
@ProperDemocrat
You can add another one here (though not sure it was UK acquired). We flew out of H'row via AbuDhabi on 27 Dec; sore throat, persistent dry cough, loss of taste/smell started 3 days later. Untested, of course!


michael orchin
@MichaelOrchin
Read ur article. At BA we have a group “Covid Symptoms in cabin crew” set up 28/4/20 with over 400 members most having had covid type symptoms as far back as early 2019 myself included with unexplained bout of pneumonia. Most testaments stated worst ever flu! reply for info


Richard Hurdle
@skippyhurdle
Hi Fergus, I am convinced that I had symptoms in late December (v.high temperature, headache, dry cough etc). My wife then had a very bad dose of flu-like virus (although she had used the NHS vaccine) in late January and also had loss of taste/smell. Please investigate!!


I suspect that there will be some antibody testing done on a lot of 'early sufferers' and that should shine a light on it.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Stooo » Sat May 23, 2020 3:50 pm

He's on fire today :yikes:

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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Sat May 23, 2020 5:16 pm

I just want to place something on here written in the Spectator by Mary Wakefield - Cumming's 'wife'.

My version of the virus began with a nasty headache and a grubby feeling of unease, after which I threw up on the bathroom floor.

That evening, as I lay on the sofa, a happy thought occurred to me: if this was the virus, then my husband, who works 16-hour days as a rule, would have to come home. I let myself imagine two weeks in bed with ‘mild symptoms’, chatting to Dom and son through an open door. More fool me.

My husband did rush home to look after me. He’s an extremely kind man, whatever people assume to the contrary. But 24 hours later, he said ‘I feel weird’ and collapsed. I felt breathless, sometimes achy, but Dom couldn’t get out of bed.

Day in, day out for 10 days he lay doggo with a high fever and spasms that made the muscles lump and twitch in his legs. He could breathe, but only in a limited, shallow way.

After a week, we reached peak corona uncertainty. Day six is a turning point, I was told: that’s when you either get better or head for ICU. But was Dom fighting off the bug or was he heading for a ventilator? Who knew? I sat on his bed staring at his chest, trying to count his breaths per minute.

The little oxygen reader we’d bought on Amazon indicated that he should be in hospital, but his lips weren’t blue and he could talk in full sentences, such as: ‘Please stop staring at my chest, sweetheart.’

When do you go to hospital?


So, at what point was she ill, and he OK, driving them 5 hours up the road to Durham?

His story, and the excuses coming from the circle of government wagons simply stink to high heaven. She has family in London. He plainly wasn't ill when they went to Durham, they both broke the rule - IF YOU SHOW SYMPTOMS STAY AT HOME, ORDER FOOD AND MEDECINE ONLINE.

https://spectator.us/getting-coronavirus-bring-clarity/
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Sat May 23, 2020 6:40 pm

Amazing how the Tories can form a protective ring around Dominic Cummings but not around Care Homes.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Guest » Sat May 23, 2020 7:57 pm

Cannydc wrote:Amazing how the Tories can form a protective ring around Dominic Cummings but not around Care Homes.



Devastating new claims have emerged that Dominic Cummings further breached the lockdown rules, as Downing Street came under sustained pressure to fire the prime minister’s most senior adviser.

The new testimony suggests Cummings left the home where he was staying in Durham to visit a town 30 miles away. He was allegedly spotted back in Durham on 19 April, days after he was photographed in London having recovered from the virus.

At the time, with the country at the peak of the pandemic, the government was insisting that people should be staying at home.

As Cummings faced calls to resign from across the political spectrum, the government was forced to defend his actions.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... own-claims
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Re: Coronavirus Thread Part 2

Postby Cannydc » Sat May 23, 2020 8:04 pm

Today we have heard all those Tory ministers telling us about "Dom's common sense" and "Dom's emergency dash".

They are going to look complete fools if this is true...

Dominic Cummings ignored coronavirus lockdown rules for a second time to visit his parents more than 250 miles away, the Sunday Mirror can reveal.

Boris Johnson’s top aide was spotted with his wife in Houghall Woods near the family’s Durham home two weeks after the first sighting.

Fellow walkers said they were taken aback to see the Prime Minister’s senior official so far from London at the height of the lockdown on April 19.

The PM’s advisor had been photographed in Downing Street two days earlier after he returned to work from his own brush with the deadly virus. He was pictured there again the following day.


Absolutely nailed on bonkers stupidity. If he doesn't go now, this lot will be regarded as a complete laughing stock.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n-22075857
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