GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Fenella » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:30 am

Cannydc wrote:
Fenella wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
Fenella wrote:I would have thought that a better comparison with the poppy burning incident was the case of the chap who urinated on a war memorial.



I suspect that one action was a deliberate attempt to inflame and induce mutual hatred.

The other was a drunken fool with little or no sense of what they were actually doing.


I am going to assume that you mean the first refers to the poppy burning chap, and the second refers to the urinating chap.

The chap who burnt the poppies got a £50 fine, and the chap who urinated on the memorial got 250 hours of community service and had to pay costs of £85. Mind you, I think there was another incident where another drunk chap got a £50 fine for urinating on a war memorial.

I'm not sure one can equate burning poppies with racial hatred, although it was clearly an act of hatred and one which is likely to have been aimed at non-Muslims.



I didn't mention race.

Muslims are not a race, they are a religion.


I didn't say you did. My comment was really related to those who have mentioned the poppy burning incident in this thread. I think the criticism is that those who condemn the golly incident didn't condemn the poppy burning incident in the same way - or something like that anyway.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 11:55 am

Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
I don't know that it's illegal to sell them in shops, (I haven't seen one for sale for years) but you have to wonder whether it is morally suspect given what they have become to represent and as such the same would apply to placing one in a window and even more so if you not only live next door to a black family but are also in dispute with them over something.

There are collectors of them and some of the rarer ones would probably sell for a lot of money.


Well yes, one has to move with the times I suppose. I wonder if the day will come when Barbies (of any colour) are seen as offensive. All dolls are caricatures to an extent as none of them look like real people.

I disagree.

There are some really life like baby dolls on the market nowadays.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Cannydc » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:12 pm

peacetoff wrote:
Cannydc wrote:" and yes,canny et al were defending the rights of the poppy burning islamics..note that the poppy is a symbol of rememberance for the fallen in our wars...not just a doll of some colour"

lying nonsense

Never, ever did I 'defend' such actions.

Having been in the Services for 23 years (and still woring with them today) I realise only too well what the poppy means. In fact, I got into a very heated argument with one poster who DID try to defend it (the mad Swedish Alien)....

Please make some effort to check your facts, Peacetoff and other racism apologists - lying tends to weaken your already paper thin argument in favour of allowing racist abuse, bullying et al.

i do appologise canny,if i was mistaken about you being one of the poppy burner defenders..i wouldn't lie to prove a point,but there were many that did...i'm no racism apolgist..i merely think,this actually trivialises acts of genuine race hate,as i said earlier


Apology accepted, of course, Peacetoff.

There are indeed those who would defend such disrespectful idiocies - they do their cause harm in the process.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Guest » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:36 pm

Cannydc wrote:
peacetoff wrote:
Cannydc wrote:" and yes,canny et al were defending the rights of the poppy burning islamics..note that the poppy is a symbol of rememberance for the fallen in our wars...not just a doll of some colour"

lying nonsense

Never, ever did I 'defend' such actions.

Having been in the Services for 23 years (and still woring with them today) I realise only too well what the poppy means. In fact, I got into a very heated argument with one poster who DID try to defend it (the mad Swedish Alien)....

Please make some effort to check your facts, Peacetoff and other racism apologists - lying tends to weaken your already paper thin argument in favour of allowing racist abuse, bullying et al.

i do appologise canny,if i was mistaken about you being one of the poppy burner defenders..i wouldn't lie to prove a point,but there were many that did...i'm no racism apolgist..i merely think,this actually trivialises acts of genuine race hate,as i said earlier


Apology accepted, of course, Peacetoff.

There are indeed those who would defend such disrespectful idiocies - they do their cause harm in the process.


Aren't the British Army burning poppies in Afghanistan?
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Fenella » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:38 pm

Ali wrote:
Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
I don't know that it's illegal to sell them in shops, (I haven't seen one for sale for years) but you have to wonder whether it is morally suspect given what they have become to represent and as such the same would apply to placing one in a window and even more so if you not only live next door to a black family but are also in dispute with them over something.

There are collectors of them and some of the rarer ones would probably sell for a lot of money.


Well yes, one has to move with the times I suppose. I wonder if the day will come when Barbies (of any colour) are seen as offensive. All dolls are caricatures to an extent as none of them look like real people.

I disagree.

There are some really life like baby dolls on the market nowadays.


Ones that look like babies maybe, but not ones that look like adults.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 12:58 pm

Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
I don't know that it's illegal to sell them in shops, (I haven't seen one for sale for years) but you have to wonder whether it is morally suspect given what they have become to represent and as such the same would apply to placing one in a window and even more so if you not only live next door to a black family but are also in dispute with them over something.

There are collectors of them and some of the rarer ones would probably sell for a lot of money.


Well yes, one has to move with the times I suppose. I wonder if the day will come when Barbies (of any colour) are seen as offensive. All dolls are caricatures to an extent as none of them look like real people.

I disagree.

There are some really life like baby dolls on the market nowadays.


Ones that look like babies maybe, but not ones that look like adults.


But it isn't actually whether they look like any one particular person though, it is what they represent that is the issue.

The barbie doll may only be a characature, but it has has typical human like features that fit what it is representing. The features of the golly doll are well, ridiculous, hence why in my opinion it has become a symbol of ridicule of a particular race of people.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Golly Blog » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:49 pm

These are incredibly lifelike dolls with all the appropriate orifices. Does anyone find them offensive? Would you put these in your window?

Image :leer:


http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_t8MirDiMGHI/S ... exDoll.jpg :dunno:
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Fenella » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:57 pm

Ali wrote:
Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:
I don't know that it's illegal to sell them in shops, (I haven't seen one for sale for years) but you have to wonder whether it is morally suspect given what they have become to represent and as such the same would apply to placing one in a window and even more so if you not only live next door to a black family but are also in dispute with them over something.

There are collectors of them and some of the rarer ones would probably sell for a lot of money.


Well yes, one has to move with the times I suppose. I wonder if the day will come when Barbies (of any colour) are seen as offensive. All dolls are caricatures to an extent as none of them look like real people.

I disagree.

There are some really life like baby dolls on the market nowadays.


Ones that look like babies maybe, but not ones that look like adults.


But it isn't actually whether they look like any one particular person though, it is what they represent that is the issue.

The barbie doll may only be a characature, but it has has typical human like features that fit what it is representing. The features of the golly doll are well, ridiculous, hence why in my opinion it has become a symbol of ridicule of a particular race of people.


What about white rag dolls or white cabbage patch dolls? They don't look anything like white people.

The issue isn't really what Gollies look like, the issue is how black people have been treated historically, so a doll which is a caricature of a black person is seen as offensive by some, although not by others. If we are to have equality today, then shouldn't people be treated the same today, not according to what may or may not have happened to other people in the past who are the same race as them? Would a white doll with exaggerated features put in a window which offends a white person be seen the same way?
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:16 pm

Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:

Well yes, one has to move with the times I suppose. I wonder if the day will come when Barbies (of any colour) are seen as offensive. All dolls are caricatures to an extent as none of them look like real people.

I disagree.

There are some really life like baby dolls on the market nowadays.


Ones that look like babies maybe, but not ones that look like adults.[/quote]

But it isn't actually whether they look like any one particular person though, it is what they represent that is the issue.

The barbie doll may only be a characature, but it has has typical human like features that fit what it is representing. The features of the golly doll are well, ridiculous, hence why in my opinion it has become a symbol of ridicule of a particular race of people.[/quote]

What about white rag dolls or white cabbage patch dolls? They don't look anything like white people.

The issue isn't really what Gollies look like, the issue is how black people have been treated historically, so a doll which is a caricature of a black person is seen as offensive by some, although not by others. If we are to have equality today, then shouldn't people be treated the same today, not according to what may or may not have happened to other people in the past who are the same race as them? Would a white doll with exaggerated features put in a window which offends a white person be seen the same way?[/quote]
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It depends on what features are eggagerated and whether you live next door to a person with similar features and possibly in a dispute with them.

For example, you live next door to someone born with a specific disfigurement, have a dispute with them and you place a ridiculous looking doll with the same disfigurement in the window then yes, it certainly would be seen to be a deliberately offensive act.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Fenella » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:39 pm

Ali wrote:It depends on what features are eggagerated and whether you live next door to a person with similar features and possibly in a dispute with them.

For example, you live next door to someone born with a specific disfigurement, have a dispute with them and you place a ridiculous looking doll with the same disfigurement in the window then yes, it certainly would be seen to be a deliberately offensive act.


OK, but would such an act lead to an arrest and a court case?
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 2:47 pm

Fenella wrote:
Ali wrote:It depends on what features are eggagerated and whether you live next door to a person with similar features and possibly in a dispute with them.

For example, you live next door to someone born with a specific disfigurement, have a dispute with them and you place a ridiculous looking doll with the same disfigurement in the window then yes, it certainly would be seen to be a deliberately offensive act.


OK, but would such an act lead to an arrest and a court case?

Yes, if the person on the receiving end made a complaint.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby peacetoff » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:07 pm

yes,i bet ali...not in the real world it wouldn't though...in this world,racism is the worse kind of insult
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 3:37 pm

peacetoff wrote:yes,i bet ali...not in the real world it wouldn't though...in this world,racism is the worse kind of insult

I wouldn't call it racism though Peace, I would call it a deliberate act with the intent of causing offense with the same applying to the example I gave if a doll highlighting a disfigurement was placed in a window.

Is there any suggestion that she hates black people per se or sees them as a lesser human being than white people which would be a true definition of a racist.
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby peacetoff » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:27 pm

the case against the woman was for racism...i have no idea about the womans history .....your last line says everything i have been trying to get over...if cases like this are allowed to go to court,it trivialises the whole concept of racism,which is a highly serious matter
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Re: GOOD GOLLY,COMMON SENSE HAS WON OVER FOR ONCE

Postby Ali » Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:09 pm

peacetoff wrote:the case against the woman was for racism...i have no idea about the womans history .....your last line says everything i have been trying to get over...if cases like this are allowed to go to court,it trivialises the whole concept of racism,which is a highly serious matter

No Peace, it doesn't trivialise it but it does highlight how the true meaning of racism can be perceived differently by different people. This women obviously felt offended by the sight of the golly doll in the window and it does seem likely that it was put there to cause offense to someone with whom this woman was in a domestic dispute and if she deliberately put it in the window to do that then the other woman had a right to make a complaint about it.
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