Clegg pledges £billion to get 18-24 year olds into work

[Fletch]

It's just more corporate welfare

Tax payers money siphoned off to private business under yet another scheme that, when it has failed, no-one will be held accountable and the money will have disappeared.

No wonder public spending is so high...

[Guest]

"pumping money into the private sector"

Or rather, pumping money into the back pockets of big business, the Tory paymasters.

Every penny will subsidise cheap labour, increasing profits at the taxpayer's expense.

Never, ever trust a Tory - you can read them like a book, and they never fail to come good for their (rich) pals....

Then there's the opposite side of the coin, one could argue that promising generous public sectors pensions to thousands of people when the country can't afford it, is wrong too.

Only the council top brass get generous pensions. Most councils are Tory. Go figure.

[Ali]

I wrote that Canny, not Spicy.

Actually, I think this is a fairly good idea and who knows it might help these kids get a job and off the dole completely.

One of the comments you see so often is that employers want experience but without a job how do you get experience, well here you go, this could be how.

This old 'experience' bollocks is just an excuse for employers not to train people to do the job they want........Imagine the Army advertising for soldiers saying, "those that haven't killed anybody, need not apply"

So would you rather they languished on the dole for the rest of their lives.

there was something I read a few days ago that said that youngsters who have taken up the chance to gain some work experience are more likely to find work than those who haven't. Says it all really.

[Cannydc]

Thatcher gave us YOPs (Youth opportunity programmes), YTS (Youth training schemes, otherwise known as being for Young, Thick and Stupid) and ET (Employment Training, also known as Extra Tenner, cos that's all you were paid over the dole)

Average pay on these 'schemes' was around 80p an hour, or £25 a week....

The idea of bringing them back must put a gleam in employer's eyes, as they offload people on full pay and take on Dave's Young Slaves at around £2 an hour to them.

[Ali]

The report I read stated that the government plan to pay half the wage for 6 months, half of the national minimum wage rate for the age that is. So who would be paying the other half?

[Cannydc]

Yep. The employer will be forking out £1.68 an hour for 16 - 17 year olds, and £2.98 an hour for 18 - 20 year olds.

Having of course disposed of people on £11.50 an hour to make room for them...

[Ali]

Yep. The employer will be forking out £1.68 an hour for 16 - 17 year olds, and £2.98 an hour for 18 - 20 year olds.

Having of course disposed of people on £11.50 an hour to make room for them...

Assuming the people that work for them are on that amount and not on minimum wage anyway. Mind you Canny an employer who would get rid of fully trained staff who have probably worked there years in order to earn £11.50 per hour in favour of inexperienced youngsters is asking to end up bankrupt.

[Trapper John]

Yep. The employer will be forking out £1.68 an hour for 16 - 17 year olds, and £2.98 an hour for 18 - 20 year olds.

Having of course disposed of people on £11.50 an hour to make room for them...

Assuming the people that work for them are on that amount and not on minimum wage anyway. Mind you Canny an employer who would get rid of fully trained staff who have probably worked there years in order to earn £11.50 per hour in favour of inexperienced youngsters is asking to end up bankrupt.

Commonsense and logic doesn't come into the equation when government is giving away free money.

[Fletch]

I wrote that Canny, not Spicy.

Actually, I think this is a fairly good idea and who knows it might help these kids get a job and off the dole completely.

One of the comments you see so often is that employers want experience but without a job how do you get experience, well here you go, this could be how.

This old 'experience' bollocks is just an excuse for employers not to train people to do the job they want........Imagine the Army advertising for soldiers saying, "those that haven't killed anybody, need not apply"

So would you rather they languished on the dole for the rest of their lives.

there was something I read a few days ago that said that youngsters who have taken up the chance to gain some work experience are more likely to find work than those who haven't. Says it all really.

But where are the jobs?

'Find work' can be rather different to getting a well remunerated full time job as a result of their training.

I used to train people on yts in our company. Most of the ones who came through the door didn't want to know, couldn't care less and were there because they were told to be there.

It wasn't that they didn't want to work, it was that they were sent to do things which they weren't suited to, not interested in or had been on other schemes and kicked out at the end a few times, so viewed it as a waste of time.

It was all about statistics and getting people onto a scheme, any scheme, as long as they were put in a different category.

We actually did keep some of the yts lads on, I had an argument with management over one lad who was good and keen but management said they couldn't afford it. He turned out to be a great little worker for the company and was there many years.

It was rare that, that happened but is likely to be even more so these days.

If the jobs were there, kids would betaken on,it's not so they're not. You also have companies wanting government or the applicant to pay for their training instead of companies investing in training. It's all about squeezing money from the public purse and cutting costs to business.

[Ali]

Fine. Lets just do nothing and leave these youngsters on the dole forever. Of course that doesn't cost the taxpayer anything at all does it?

You lot moan like merry hell about people who aren't working because we are paying for it and now you are moaning like merry hell when a scheme comes along which may do something about helping these youngsters into work.

No one's gonna know whether it will help or not, but sitting doing nothing sure as hell isn't going to do jack about the dole queue is it?

[Trapper John]

I was listening to a phone in last night on this subject, without exception, the only people on there that got anything from these 'unemployment figure reduction schemes' like YTS etc., were those who got placements with councils or very large companies who were in on the government scheme, like M&S etc.

Those who took positions in smaller private companies were just used as slave labour. One girl said that her time in an office on YTS, consisted of making tea and coffee, listening to gossip and a bit of filing. At the end of her time, she'd learnt absolutely nothing that she didn't already know and was told that there was no position for her and they would have to let her go. A week later another YTS slave was carrying on where she left off.

A great way to inspire confidence and self worth in young people, i'd say.

[Ali]

Is this a YTS scheme or a scheme with the intention of encouraging employers to create jobs. As far as I understood it this half pay for six months sheme only applies if the empolyer actually employs them not takes them on a training basis only.

If I recall correctly the government paid the money for the YTS scheme to the youngster through their benefits with the 'employer' paying nothing, with this scheme the employer will be expected to stump up the other half which would equall several thousand pounds.

[Cannydc]

"One girl said that her time in an office on YTS, consisted of making tea and coffee, listening to gossip and a bit of filing. At the end of her time, she'd learnt absolutely nothing that she didn't already know and was told that there was no position for her and they would have to let her go. A week later another YTS slave was carrying on where she left off. "

Precisely the point I made a few posts ago.

The answer, Ali, is to invest in the economy as a whole. Not rape it with VAT and tax increases, cuts in pensions and throwing a million more onto the scrapheap.

One other point - there will never be places for people to start work at the bottom of the ladder while 250,000+ over 65s a year decide to continue working - thus meaning no-one ever moves up the ladder leaving space at the bottom. Sorry, but I was vilified for mentioning that this would happen. It has, but people are keeping very quiet about it.

[Trapper John]

Lets try this on for size then, if we're worrying about all these youngsters being out of work.

Seeing that the plan is to force them to work as slave labour for the business world, lets send back some of the millions of immigrants who have been taking the traditional school leavers and student jobs over the past 15 years or so, and force the youngsters to do those.

That would have the added benefit of easing other areas of pressure, mass immigration has forced upon us. We would then have a million kids working, costing us half the benefits, they already live somewhere, so no extra pressure on accomodation, they're already on NHS lists, so no extra pressure on our health services, they're already educated, so no extra pressure on schooling, and thats just for starters.

Once you add to those, the millions of adults on invalidity and the workshy, plus the millions who are going to be forced to extend their working lives, we won't need immigrants at all, or very few.

It's a win, win situation for us all.......so what is the problem?

[Ali]

TJ, what rate of pay do you think these youngsters would get if they found jobs off their own backs. Do you imagine that most of them would walk into £30,000 per annum jobs or something?

As it stands at the moment there is no incentive for employers to create permanent jobs, they just use agencies when they might need additional staff temporarily and I am aware working for a company who does just this, many of the people signed up on agencies are foreign nationals (agencies actively recruit from abroad) so maybe that is something that needs to be dealt with.