They only rioted because they lost hope,Ex-Labour minister

[Verum]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

[Ali]

It does actually Raggy, because if not all of the people involved aren't inherently criminal then there must be some explanation as to why they got involved.

[Ali]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

[Raggamuffin]

Ali clearly implied that the reason people don't comment on the "reasons" for paedophilia and the subsequent criminal behaviour resulting from it is that people on this forum are not "experts". If that is the reason, then perhaps she can explain why people on here who are not economists, politicians, or lawyers sit here commenting on economics, politics, and court cases.

[Raggamuffin]

It does actually Raggy, because if not all of the people involved aren't inherently criminal then there must be some explanation as to why they got involved.

There is - it's just not the one that Margaret Hodge and some of you have given - IMO.

[Cannydc]

There is a huge gulf between an attempt to explain cause and effect, and making excuses for criminal behaviour.

Trying to find out WHY a murderer kills, or a rapist rapes, in trying to prevent future occurences can hardly be described as siding with the criminal - except, perhaps, by the utterly disengenuous with a political point to score...

Really? Would you like to try to give an explanation for why some people abuse children or have sex with them? I'd like to see the reaction on here if you did that.

I wouldn't because I am not qualified.

However, even if I were, it is likely that the knuckle dragging right wingers who frequent these pages would be prepared to listen to knowledgeable dissertations on criminal minds and how they work.

The limit of their intellect usually runs to 'hang the bastards'. Never mind how we prevent the next one, or ten, or a hundred similar crimes. If, however, the work of those who study such things were to lead to prevention of paedophilia, I have no doubt there would still be those who have deep suspicions about such 'clever flim-flam'.

Well in the past I've tried to discuss what makes paedophiles feel the way they do, and possible ways to prevent future abuse of children by addressing the issue in a scientific way, but I was shouted down by many people, including "lefties". I've been called a paedo-enabler, a paedo-sympathiser, and I've been accused of making "excuses" for them.

I don't think that young people going out and taking advantage of a chaotic situation is quite the same thing though, and I simply can't bring myself to listen to their excuses about how broke they are and how oppressed they are. If they feel like that, I agree that maybe something be done, but allowing them to blame others for their criminal behaviour doesn't cut it for me.

There's a surprise.

Can't say I have notice 'lefties' on here or elsewhere come to that being hypercritical of knowledgeable comment.

But then, how knowledgeable on paedophilia are you, exactly ?

[Rocthedog]

I did not see any attempt whatsoever to excuse the riots only an attempt to explain them and based on the advice of George Santayana that can only be a good thing.

Another excuser of the riots....If you were not excusing the riots why comment in such a fashion......

[Raggamuffin]

There is a huge gulf between an attempt to explain cause and effect, and making excuses for criminal behaviour.

Trying to find out WHY a murderer kills, or a rapist rapes, in trying to prevent future occurences can hardly be described as siding with the criminal - except, perhaps, by the utterly disengenuous with a political point to score...

Really? Would you like to try to give an explanation for why some people abuse children or have sex with them? I'd like to see the reaction on here if you did that.

I wouldn't because I am not qualified.

However, even if I were, it is likely that the knuckle dragging right wingers who frequent these pages would be prepared to listen to knowledgeable dissertations on criminal minds and how they work.

The limit of their intellect usually runs to 'hang the bastards'. Never mind how we prevent the next one, or ten, or a hundred similar crimes. If, however, the work of those who study such things were to lead to prevention of paedophilia, I have no doubt there would still be those who have deep suspicions about such 'clever flim-flam'.

Well in the past I've tried to discuss what makes paedophiles feel the way they do, and possible ways to prevent future abuse of children by addressing the issue in a scientific way, but I was shouted down by many people, including "lefties". I've been called a paedo-enabler, a paedo-sympathiser, and I've been accused of making "excuses" for them.

I don't think that young people going out and taking advantage of a chaotic situation is quite the same thing though, and I simply can't bring myself to listen to their excuses about how broke they are and how oppressed they are. If they feel like that, I agree that maybe something be done, but allowing them to blame others for their criminal behaviour doesn't cut it for me.

There's a surprise.

Can't say I have notice 'lefties' on here or elsewhere come to that being hypercritical of knowledgeable comment.

But then, how knowledgeable on paedophilia are you, exactly ?

Oh I haven't attempted such a discussion on here - I had enough of the abuse on the Mirror and other forums.

There's quite a lot of information out there on the possible explanations for such tendencies and possible ways to prevent it. One doesn't have to have first-hand knowledge of something to comment. If one did, this section would not be very busy.

[Raggamuffin]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

Take your backslapping to the Arms - this section is for news and debate.

[Verum]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

Take your backslapping to the Arms - this section is for news and debate.

Keep your nannying to yourself or start your own forum. Okay, grandma'?

[Raggamuffin]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

Take your backslapping to the Arms - this section is for news and debate.

Keep your nannying to yourself or start your own forum. Okay, grandma'?

I have my own forum. You might want to take heed of the rules for this section.

Now then, about these riots and other behaviour - any more comments?

[Cactus Jack]

There is a huge gulf between an attempt to explain cause and effect, and making excuses for criminal behaviour.

Trying to find out WHY a murderer kills, or a rapist rapes, in trying to prevent future occurences can hardly be described as siding with the criminal - except, perhaps, by the utterly disengenuous with a political point to score...

So you've met Fenella on here before.

[Raggamuffin]

If young people (or any people) feel they are not being listened to by the Government, they could arrange a peaceful protest. People managed to comment on Facebook about the riots and follow them on twitter and forums, so could they not arrange a protest of some sort?

[Verum]

As a neutral party here I declare Muffy to to be wrong and Ali to have the greater expertise.

Take your backslapping to the Arms - this section is for news and debate.

Keep your nannying to yourself or start your own forum. Okay, grandma'?

I have my own forum. You might want to take heed of the rules for this section.

Now then, about these riots and other behaviour - any more comments?

Well do us all a favour and attend your own forum - (it must be shite if you spend all your time on here).

You were discussing expertise and paedophilia - off topic - "You might want to take heed of the rules for this section."

Pathetic.

[Cactus Jack]

Strange that all the calls for 'peaceful protest' portray the 'Occupy' movement; completely peaceful and law abiding to the point of moving on with only entirely passive protest when evicted by the courts, is also met so disparagingly.

Strange too that the same souls portray the 100% peaceful BDS protests against Israel as somehow sinister.

Perhaps for them impotent ranting against immigrants in support of drunken hooligans is the only 'legitimate' protest.