Could there be Flying Saucers

Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Trapper John » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:09 am

Lexi wrote:OMG! I can't stand people who believe in all this shite! Like people who believe in some sort of God? I'm sorry to be rude, but, I only believe in reality, I'm a realist! What YOU see is real! What you imagine is NOT! IMO! What you 'want' to be true? and what is actually true? are so very different things! Cookoo! imo! :off head:

Actually, what you SEE is - to put it simply - impulses of light directed to your retina....which your brain turns into pictures for you..doesn't necessarily have to be real.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:11 am

Lexi wrote:OMG! I can't stand people who believe in all this shite! Like people who believe in some sort of God? I'm sorry to be rude, but, I only believe in reality, I'm a realist! What YOU see is real! What you imagine is NOT! IMO! What you 'want' to be true? and what is actually true? are so very different things! Cookoo! imo! :off head:


So Lexi, what you are saying is you would of been on the side of the flat earthers all those centuries ago? Black holes are proven scientific fact, but we can't see them, not even with the most powerful telescope we have, but they exists. So being a realist as you say you are sayign science is cookoo for saying such a thing? What is actually true sometimes cannot be seen. I think Lexi you need to choose different wording.

Why bring God into it, this have fuck all to do with GOD, ghosts, pink elephants etc. This is about physical things seen, captured on radar, radar doesn't pick up God or Ghosts Lexi.

You can't have many friends if you can't stand people for believing in something you don't.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:16 am

Trapezerjohn wrote:
Lexi wrote:OMG! I can't stand people who believe in all this shite! Like people who believe in some sort of God? I'm sorry to be rude, but, I only believe in reality, I'm a realist! What YOU see is real! What you imagine is NOT! IMO! What you 'want' to be true? and what is actually true? are so very different things! Cookoo! imo! :off head:

Actually, what you SEE is - to put it simply - impulses of light directed to your retina....which your brain turns into pictures for you..doesn't necessarily have to be real.




Well as you can see this Lexi, it must be true, a person can realy realy manifest playing cards out if thin air. WOW, magic. "I only believe in reality" :thumbsup:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:20 am

In truth pseudosceptics like Keitho, Canny and now Lexi by their actions, are defenders of the status quo and materialism. They are fanatics and dogmatists who have no regard for facts, evidence ( any shape or form ) or truth, but have an a priori faith-based, almost religious belief that the Alien/UFO phenomena is impossible and therefore set out to ridicule it, not investigate it. And they will distort, dismiss and obfuscate to get their way. They generally have no objectivity towards any evidence, eyewitness or otherwise but bigotry and emotional fanaticism. If you’re wondering if this is true, then ask yourself this. Why does for the most part Keitho, ridicule and deny all UFO claims also usually deny all conspiracies and facts in support of them, while dogmatically accepting all propaganda by the media and establishment? Lets take this fella Randi, Penn and Teller, Have you ever seen them challenge anything official held by the status quo at all? No, nor have I, what does that tell you?




Here are a list of traits that define the true sceptic vs. the pseudosceptic.

Have a guess which group Keitho, Canny and now it would seem Lexi belongs to.

True Sceptics / Open-Minded Sceptics

-Questions everything and takes nothing on faith, even from cherished established institutions.
-Asks questions to try to understand new things and are open to learning about them.
-Applies critical examination and inquiry to all sides, including their own.
-Withholds judgment and does not jump to rash conclusions.
-Seeks the truth and considers it the highest aim.
-Thinks in terms of possibilities rather than in preserving fixed views.
-Fairly and objectively weighs evidence on all sides.
-Acknowledges valid convincing evidence rather than ignoring or denying it.
-Possess solid sharp common sense and reason.
-Are able to adapt their paradigms to new evidence and update their hypothesis to fit the data.
-When all conventional explanations for a phenomenon are ruled out, are able to accept paranormal ones.
-Accepts that there are mysteries and revels in trying to understand them.
-Views science as a tool and methodology, not as a religion or authority to be obeyed. Understands the difference between the scientific process and the scientific establishment.
-Acknowledges that the scientific establishment is subject to politics, corruption, control, censorship and suppression, as all human based institutions are - and therefore must be critically examined and scrutinized, rather than taken on faith, especially in the light of contrary evidence to their claims.
-Will admit they are wrong when the evidence calls for it.


PseudoSceptics / Closed-Minded Sceptics


-Does not question anything from established non-religious institutions, but takes whatever they say on faith and demands that others do the same.
-Does not ask questions to try to understand new things, but judges them by whether they fit into orthodoxy.
-Applies "critical thinking" only to that which opposes orthodoxy or materialism, but never to the status quo itself.
-Immediately judges as false and debunks anything that contradicts their paradigm.
-Are not interested in truth, evidence or facts, only in defending their views.
-Cannot think in terms of possibilities, but sees their paradigms as fixed and constant.
-Are willing to lie and deceive to discredit their opponents.
-Automatically dismisses and denies all data that contradicts materialism and orthodoxy.
-Are judgmental and quick to draw conclusions about things they know little or nothing about.
-Scoffs and ridicules what they oppose instead of using objective analysis and examination.
-When faced with evidence or facts they can't refute, uses semantics, word games and denial to try to obfuscate the issue.
-Unable to adapt their paradigms to new evidence, and denies data which doesn't fit into them.
-When all conventional explanations for an unexplainable phenomenon are ruled out, are still not able to accept paranormal ones.
-Dislikes mystery and uncertainty, and insist that all unknown phenomena must have a mundane explanation.
-Views the scientific establishment as a religion and authority to be taken on faith and never questioned or challenged. Does not understand the difference between the scientific process/methodology and the scientific establishment institution.
-Assumes that the scientific establishment is objective and unbiased, and free of politics, corruption, control, censorship and suppression for no other reason than blind faith in authority.
-Will never admit that they are wrong no matter what, regardless of evidence. A goalpost mover.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Mark » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:59 pm

i deffo believe that there are other forms of life in space
the age & vastness of it all, the sheer number of stars, galaxies kinda confirm this imo

BUT
whether they have, or would, travel here, is another thing alltogether
they would need tech and an understanding of what we call physics, far beyond ours, so would be far superior beings who may view us as cockroaches if they whizzed by.
i've not seen or read anything that makes me believe that we have been visited, in the past or more recently
the ancient drawings, carvings etc, are just man using artistic flair and his imagination, trying to make sense of his surroundings as are the myths, legends & stories
and the alien abduction stories are quite mad imho
to quote our beloved Dr..E.........why is it always the ANAL PROBE :yikes: why travel light years
to stick things up our arses FFS.......quite mad.

as for the CT-ers who believe that we are being ruled by aliens in disguise
thats equally as mad imo

the mofos ruling us, are usat our worst.......................just nasty greedy corrupt selfish mofos..............not ET. :cuppaT:

hiya Coc
glad to see you've smartened yerself up
ya mad bastard :Hiya:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Mark » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:59 pm

:pmsl:

thatd DOC not COC
:pmsl:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Cannydc » Tue Oct 16, 2012 7:28 pm

Honestly, Leggy, you are so full of shite.

Trying to box people up so they follow one set of rules or the other is just so fascist, it barely reaches the very bottom end of the credible scale.

I'm not a scientist, but as an electronics engineer I do understand that there are laws of physics and other sciences which are laws because they have been proven.

And that makes them pretty much inviolable. Then we have scientific theories. Some will be proven to be accurate, some not, but to accuse us of being closed minded because we choose not to jump gleefully onto every theory bandwagon is nonsense. And you really don't see the extreme unlikelihood of aliens visiting Earth simply due to the vastness of space and the humpty grillions of choices they would be faced with, do you ?

And you claim WE are not open minded !!

Ah well. Show us the proof. Put up, or shut up and let proper scientists get on with proper work. We have a hell of a lot to do if we are to escape the Earth before the Sun becomes a white dwarf... time is short.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:19 pm

what if the universe is young
and we are the most advanced to date
the rest of the universe could be primordial soup
and dinosaurland
we could be the first sentient race for all we know at this point
:cuppaT:
and until that is disproved we should act as such
and treat the earth and its citizens like the most precious gift in the universe
instead of this headlong suicidal power trip
:shake head:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:24 pm

Cannydc wrote:Honestly, Leggy, you are so full of shite.

Trying to box people up so they follow one set of rules or the other is just so fascist, it barely reaches the very bottom end of the credible scale.

I'm not a scientist, but as an electronics engineer I do understand that there are laws of physics and other sciences which are laws because they have been proven.

And that makes them pretty much inviolable. Then we have scientific theories. Some will be proven to be accurate, some not, but to accuse us of being closed minded because we choose not to jump gleefully onto every theory bandwagon is nonsense. And you really don't see the extreme unlikelihood of aliens visiting Earth simply due to the vastness of space and the humpty grillions of choices they would be faced with, do you ?

And you claim WE are not open minded !!

Ah well. Show us the proof. Put up, or shut up and let proper scientists get on with proper work. We have a hell of a lot to do if we are to escape the Earth before the Sun becomes a white dwarf... time is short.
we are not talking about us Canny.

Good mornign Canny, let's see, you were placed in that closed minded box because you are incapable of discussing the subject in an adult fashion, instead you choose to ridicule and attempt to belittle the subject or person. Below is what makes you fit nice n snug in the box.

-Are judgmental and quick to draw conclusions about things they know little or nothing about.
-Scoffs and ridicules what they oppose instead of using objective analysis and examination.
-Dislikes mystery and uncertainty, and insist that all unknown phenomena must have a mundane explanation.
-Automatically dismisses and denies all data that contradicts materialism and orthodoxy.
-Immediately judges as false and debunks anything that contradicts their paradigm.

And that Canny is why you are classed as a Psuedosceptic, a labour one too.

Noone is boxing you up to follow one set of rules, you are doing that all by yourself and why you fit into the closed mind box. scientific theories are supported by facts and still remain as such Scientific theories.



Let me ask you this, Why is it impossible for an alien race to travel here, to say "too far don't cut it". I want to know why.

Could an alien race 1 millions+ yrs us humans develope such tech that they could traverse space in a life time or shorter? They could be nomadic and already left their planet millions of years ago. You seem to imply because we can't they can't. That is being closed minded.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:34 pm

just coz man conquered all of earth doesnt mean he will conquer all of space
quite the opposite
the likelyhood is we will evolve or devolve into somthing else
before we or any other fuckers cross to another star system and meet a fucking alien
:cuppaT:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:42 pm

Big Fat Frosty wrote:just coz man conquered all of earth doesnt mean he will conquer all of space
quite the opposite
the likelyhood is we will evolve or devolve into somthing else
before we or any other fuckers cross to another star system and meet a fucking alien
:cuppaT:


We shouldn't go by what we can can today.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Tue Oct 16, 2012 8:51 pm

we are at the edge of macro tech
micro tech on the other hand
the mysteries within
that is the new frontier
quantum level mechanics
we will have to go inwards before we are ever to go outwards.......
:cuppaT:
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby Cannydc » Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:31 pm

"you are incapable of discussing the subject in an adult fashion"

Take a moment out, Leggy. Look at my posts. And then your 'adult' responses.

Proud of them ?

Now, to your boxes, which you seem to be obsessed with.


-Are judgmental and quick to draw conclusions about things they know little or nothing about.

My judgement is based on several things I know to be true. The vastness of the universe, and the mind boggling distances between us and any other planets, possibly inhabited or not.

The enormous number of stars, each of which MAY have life, but NOT ever guaranteed to be either intelligent or blessed with manual dexterity (how would dolphins build a spaceship?)

The fact that we aren't even in an area of the Cosmos with a reasonable star density.

The fact that we have only transmitted any receivable signals for a hundred years or so - and they won't even have reached anywhere significant yet.

The fact that no alien life has got here and stayed - unless you believe in Lizard people.

And so I draw the conclusion that an alien visit, while not impossible (little is), based on simple probability alone is extremely unlikely, less than one in millions.


-Scoffs and ridicules what they oppose instead of using objective analysis and examination.

Nope, I tried to explain the reasoning, you scoffed and insulted. Read back.


-Dislikes mystery and uncertainty, and insist that all unknown phenomena must have a mundane explanation.

Everthing has an explaination. And not always mundane. But as mankind moves on, science will do most, if not all of the explaining. I love solving mysteries, and every mystery solved is a debunked wild theory. And the sad thing is, even when proven incorrect there are those who will never believe. Healthy scepticism is one thing, stubborn mulish, blinkered refusal to accept reality is quite another.


-Automatically dismisses and denies all data that contradicts materialism and orthodoxy.

Again, I dismiss nothing until proven - this argument is frankly hollow, sweeping and wrong. There simply is no data to prove an alien visitation. If there were, religion would die overnight. If only.


-Immediately judges as false and debunks anything that contradicts their paradigm.

I judge on realities, Leggy. Not slightly fanciful theories. And nothing has yet contradicted my paradigm. Well, nothing which stands up as solid evidence, anyway.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby 3rdLeg » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:38 pm

Cannydc wrote:"you are incapable of discussing the subject in an adult fashion"

Take a moment out, Leggy. Look at my posts. And then your 'adult' responses.

Proud of them ?

Now, to your boxes, which you seem to be obsessed with.


-Are judgmental and quick to draw conclusions about things they know little or nothing about.

My judgement is based on several things I know to be true. The vastness of the universe, and the mind boggling distances between us and any other planets, possibly inhabited or not.

The enormous number of stars, each of which MAY have life, but NOT ever guaranteed to be either intelligent or blessed with manual dexterity (how would dolphins build a spaceship?)

The fact that we aren't even in an area of the Cosmos with a reasonable star density.

The fact that we have only transmitted any receivable signals for a hundred years or so - and they won't even have reached anywhere significant yet.

The fact that no alien life has got here and stayed - How do you know? - Ancient man says otherwise, you know the same really really smart people that built the pyramids but apparently too stupid or primative to jot down what they saw in the sky.

And so I draw the conclusion that an alien visit, while not impossible (little is), "That is the same as saying possible".
based on simple probability alone is extremely unlikely, less than one in millions. - And who came up with that equation?


-Scoffs and ridicules what they oppose instead of using objective analysis and examination. - "unless you believe in Lizard people".

Nope, I tried to explain the reasoning, you scoffed and insulted. Read back. - Where?

-Dislikes mystery and uncertainty, and insist that all unknown phenomena must have a mundane explanation.

Everthing has an explaination. And not always mundane. ( and if not mundane then you must accept that there are mysteries and you should revel in trying to understand instead of saying it can't be done )But as mankind moves on, science will do most, if not all of the explaining. I love solving mysteries, and every mystery solved is a debunked wild theory. And the sad thing is, even when proven incorrect there are those who will never believe. Healthy scepticism is one thing, stubborn mulish, blinkered refusal to accept reality is quite another.


-Automatically dismisses and denies all data that contradicts materialism and orthodoxy.

Again, I dismiss nothing until proven - this argument is frankly hollow, sweeping and wrong. There simply is no data to prove an alien visitation. If there were, religion would die overnight. If only.
There is photo and film footage, credible eyewitnesses and we are not talking about some fella walking his dog home from a bar with a gutful. pilots, military, police, air traffic controllers, doctors and radar etc etc, all those that you trust with you life. Ancient inscirptions, texts from idia, south america.. There is enough out there.

-immediately judges as false and debunks anything that contradicts their paradigm.

I judge on realities, Leggy. Not slightly fanciful theories. And nothing has yet contradicted my paradigm. Well, nothing which stands up as solid evidence, anyway.


Everything starts as a theory, how we move on, how science works. Of course it has, you choose to ignore what millions upon millions have witnessed. We aint talking lockness monster here. We are talking about a phenonema that is real.

95% of sitings can be explained but the remaining 5 cannot be explained with the known laws of physics.
This 5 % should be of concern do you not think? If there is something unknown flying around that is *-made then it is in the peoples and sciences interest as to what it is.
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Re: Could there be Flying Saucers

Postby KeithTas » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:11 am

Leggo, millions and millions of people have seen ghosts and millions and millions have spoke to god (all denominations) but it does not make them real. Would I like to see earth have alien contact, most definitely, but again this does not make it real. You can have all the scenarios you like but the statistics hold solid, even for wormholes. In fact the odds of a wormhole connecting two star systems with life is just the same as roaming around hoping to bump into ET.
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