Wonderful things happening after the referendum and A50

[Si_Crewe]

How does that help prevent migrant labour from Eastern Europe - and who will buy our goods at greatly inflated prices due to the increased labour costs?

It seems as though both you and wutang are actually concerned about businesses and the economy even though you claim worker conditions are your priority.
Which is fair enough, I guess.

That being the case, regardless of whether we're in or out of the EU, all that we can hope to achieve is to abolish cheap labour which will cause the same problems for businesses.
The only difference being that, outside of the EU, we will have the ability to control immigrant labour as required rather than continuing to allow businesses to exploit it.
And if, once out of the EU, a government fails to manage the situation satisfactorily, we can vote 'em out and replace them with one who say they can.

I've always accepted that Brexit will have a negative impact on the UK economy so this isn't something which comes as a surprise to me.
As I've said, to me it's a price worth paying.

[McAz]

I've always accepted that Brexit will have a negative impact on the UK economy so this isn't something which comes as a surprise to me.
As I've said, to me it's a price worth paying.

Yep - wonderful!

[Guest]

I've always accepted that Brexit will have a negative impact on the UK economy so this isn't something which comes as a surprise to me.
As I've said, to me it's a price worth paying.

Yep - wonderful!

Yep 18% inflation because of WTO tariffs
for a decade

[wutang]

Personally, I'm more interested in the wellbeing of UK citizens than people from other countries but, regardless of that, if this stuff was dealt with then it'd be possible for UK citizens and immigrants to compete for jobs on an even footing and, whoever got them, they'd get paid a living wage.

The wellbeing of immigrant workers effects the wellbeing of UK workers. The article for 2009 referes to workers on temporary work visa - a likely solution to the that will be used post-brexit. Workers in these situation are more likely to be exploited and abused as any complaint means losing their jobs and therefore deportation. The more precarious the situation migrant labour is in (due to tougher immigration controls) means a much more exploitable workforce.

Improvements in pay and conditions historically comes from organised workers - unionisation - which means instead of demonising and demanding the exclusion of foreign workers, the UK labour movement needs to do more to include them in the fight (which requires accepting them as having equal rights).

[wutang]

It seems as though both you and wutang are actually concerned about businesses and the economy even though you claim worker conditions are your priority.
Which is fair enough, I guess.

Not concerns but merely recognising the flaw in your viewpoint. The difference between left radicals like me and more reformists like Az is that whereas he believes the problems of capitalism can be fixed I dont.

That doesn't means I'm opposed to improvements in the situation of my class, far from it, more pay, better conditions, more social services for ALL workers are to be applauded and fought for. The problem is that capitalism has a limit.

In this case locally produced produce has to compete with cheaper imports - its can only do this by keeping labour costs down to a bare minimum. Saying "everyone gets a living wage" is gonna see many farms reduce labour demand (some machines are already being produced that can do these jobs). The alternative is huge government subsidies to prop up the profits of the producers - which is gonna be political difficult to manage

Now a radical like me says "fuck it, take these farms into public ownership" but as the current UK political class is opposed to that what are they gonna do?

edit: another alternative is trade barriers blocking cheap imports but that risks sparking a trade war and increasing the cost to consumers... both politically toxic

[Stooo]

Highest rates of unemployment is in places like the North West, West Midlands, North East... how are they to do the jobs in places like Lincolnshire or Kent?

Given that the people doing these jobs have traveled half way across a fucking continent to do them, that excuse, alone, doesn't wash.

I wonder if there'd be any mileage in setting up some kind of charity which offers to get people together and bus them around the country to take these jobs?
Would the unemployed people in cities be interested in grouping together and then travelling across the country to spend a couple of months earning a bit of cash?
Honestly, I dunno.

The New Gypsies?

I can see the headlines already...

[Si_Crewe]

The New Gypsies?

I can see the headlines already...

I seem to recall "locusts" was the term of choice.

[Stooo]

The New Gypsies?

I can see the headlines already...

I seem to recall "locusts" was the term of choice.

From where, Dacre?

[Si_Crewe]

The New Gypsies?

I can see the headlines already...

I seem to recall "locusts" was the term of choice.

From where, Dacre?

Ravey Davey, if I'm not mistaken.

IIRC, it turned out to be a bit of a gaff since, just after saying it, we started to get refugee bodies washing up on beaches, which must have been terribly inconvenient for him.

[Stooo]

The New Gypsies?

I can see the headlines already...

I seem to recall "locusts" was the term of choice.

From where, Dacre?

Ravey Davey, if I'm not mistaken.

IIRC, it turned out to be a bit of a gaff since, just after saying it, we started to get refugee bodies washing up on beaches, which must have been terribly inconvenient for him.

Ah, the swarm stuff, I 'member. We went overnight from 'fuck no to that shit' to 'think about the children' in a headline heartbeat. I often ponder about that whole episode.

[Guest]

GBP -14.5%
Inflation +2.4pp
Real wages growth rate -2.7pp
Investment -0.9% (Q4 '16)

Happy #BrexitAnniversary

[Guest]

[Stooo]

Choose life...

[George Michael]

Choose life...

no thanks

[Guest]

EIRE will block any Brexit for the UK if it goes against the GFA.