No London Fire Thread?

[rollup]

Once again your concept of political ideology is found wanting
how can an anarchist - anti-authoritarianism be a Marxist - pro-authoritarianism?
Kinnock wasn't replaced by Blair.
Smith took over from Kinnock.

So what do you say about the media lies, smears, disinformation about Labour or Corbyn etc. in the election run up?
How did Kinnock get a better result in his first General Election as Leader?
If you think someone with barely 2 years as leader can get a better result as a leader who had 9 years in charge, then you are seriously deluded.

Once again, your lack of comprehension skills is just as apparent as it ever was.

Mrxists will be happy if Corbyn gets elected. Anarchists will be happy at the prospect of the impending collapse of our economy resulting from that government.
It doesn't mean they're the same people.

As for John Smith, he didn't participate in a GE so there's little to learn from his tenure as leader.
We know Kinnock was a traditional "leftie" and the Labour party were a fucking joke under his tenure.
We know Blair occupied the middle ground and he swept to victory.
We also know that Corbyn is a "leftie" and he only managed to do as well as Kinnock against the weakest opposition in over two decades.
Make of that what you will.

The IMF called Corbyns economics common sense economics.
You're a Tory but don't seem to know it.
The global economy has been almost destroyed not by socialism or unions or militants but by pure capitalistic greed but never a word from you about that.
How do they fix it or prop it up?
With socialist principles but they do it so it's socialism for them the hard fist of capitalism for the rest.
Stop trying to look intelligent it's not working.

[Guest]

If our almost £2 trillion quid debt, much of it gifted to the rich, hasn't collapsed the economy then let's not exaggerate the effect of few modest proposals to spend a few billion on the poor who desperately need it.

Do you not remember the 1970s?

3 day weeks, power cuts, general strikes etc.
Almost certainly the most appealing period in recent history for anybody seeking the downfall of a system of government.

All in the early 70s

[Si_Crewe]

Just saw this on the beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

[McAz]

Just saw this on the beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

His nice fat compensation package should cushion the blow.

[rollup]

If our almost £2 trillion quid debt, much of it gifted to the rich, hasn't collapsed the economy then let's not exaggerate the effect of few modest proposals to spend a few billion on the poor who desperately need it.

Do you not remember the 1970s?

3 day weeks, power cuts, general strikes etc.
Almost certainly the most appealing period in recent history for anybody seeking the downfall of a system of government.

All in the early 70s

Yet still he voted Labour
I wonder how far back people like Crewe think it's justifiable to go?
By all accounts the civil war was a bit rough.

[McAz]

If our almost £2 trillion quid debt, much of it gifted to the rich, hasn't collapsed the economy then let's not exaggerate the effect of few modest proposals to spend a few billion on the poor who desperately need it.

Do you not remember the 1970s?

3 day weeks, power cuts, general strikes etc.
Almost certainly the most appealing period in recent history for anybody seeking the downfall of a system of government.

All in the early 70s

Yet still he voted Labour
I wonder how far back people like Crewe think it's justifiable to go?
By all accounts the civil war was a bit rough.

Civil war.

Knock it off Jack.

It's this fucking heat, it's getting to everyone.

[Si_Crewe]

Just saw this on the beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

His nice fat compensation package should cushion the blow.

And it might prove convenient when it comes to things like inquest verdicts and establishing responsibility.

If I worked in the Kensington planning office, I think I might be tempted to start sending out my CV, regardless of any involvement in this.

[McAz]

Just saw this on the beeb: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40362317

His nice fat compensation package should cushion the blow.

And it might prove convenient when it comes to things like inquest verdicts and establishing responsibility.

If I worked in the Kensington planning office, I think I might be tempted to start sending out my CV, regardless of any involvement in this.

Yes indeed.

[rollup]

If our almost £2 trillion quid debt, much of it gifted to the rich, hasn't collapsed the economy then let's not exaggerate the effect of few modest proposals to spend a few billion on the poor who desperately need it.

Do you not remember the 1970s?

3 day weeks, power cuts, general strikes etc.
Almost certainly the most appealing period in recent history for anybody seeking the downfall of a system of government.

All in the early 70s

Yet still he voted Labour
I wonder how far back people like Crewe think it's justifiable to go?
By all accounts the civil war was a bit rough.

Civil war.

Knock it off Jack.

It's this fucking heat, it's getting to everyone.

Okay what remains relevant .... only what happened in his lifetime?
Don't answer that ....

[McAz]

Can't recall if we've had this story - apologies in advance:

Tory firm owned stake in cheap cladding Company.

Coller Capital - founded by Tory donor Jeremy Coller - owned a fifth of Rydon Construction, via a partnership based offshore in Jersey

Coller boss and founder Jeremy Coller donated £15,000 to the Conservative Party in July 2015.

It would have cost just £5,000 to use fire-resistant cladding on Grenfell Tower

(The Mirror)

[Guest]

Now it turns out the Tories didn't buy those 68 flats.
The Corporation of London did.

[wutang]

Government-backed 'red tape' group looked at EU fire safety rules on morning of Grenfell fire

Red Tape Initiative considered push to dismantle regulations on construction materials including cladding after Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... nfell-fire

A government-supported initiative to cut red tape considered a push to dismantle EU regulations on the fire safety of cladding and other construction materials in the weeks before the Grenfell Tower fire.

A document obtained by Greenpeace and Friends of the Earth, and seen by the Guardian, singled out EU regulation which covers the safety and efficacy of construction materials as among the first to target for dismantling. Among the products covered in the EU regulation is cladding.

The document was produced on 10 May for the Red Tape Initiative, a body supported by the government, to “seize the opportunities” of Brexit to cut red tape. Entitled The EU’s Impact on the UK Housing and Construction Industry, it picks out the Construction Products Regulation (EU 305/2011) as “red tape folly” which is “expensive and burdensome for small businesses”.

The regulation aims to harmonise the quality of construction materials, including external cladding, across the EU, to make sure they are safe and fit for use.

It states: “The construction works must be designed and built in such a way that in the event of an outbreak of fire the generation and spread of fire and smoke within the construction works are limited.”

The director of the Red Tape Initiative, Nick Tyrone, said the document was a “starter for 10” and on the morning of 14 June – the day of the fire – the body’s expert panel of housebuilders sat down to consider it.

Awkward

[Si_Crewe]

Awkward

Not really.

BSI regulations were often superior to the CE regulations which replaced them.

Surely you don't think "dismantling EU regulations" implies that the UK will be left with no regulations of any kind?

[wutang]

Not a case of no regulation - more a case of water it all down as much as possible while also watering down the regulatory bodies to the point that they may as well not exist

back in November 2013 even a Parliamentary Committee, reviewing the HCA’s regulation of landlords, had complained that it had “interpreted his remit as narrowly as possible” regarding its interpretation of what qualifies as “serious detriment”.

So, over three years before the Grenfell fire, even sections of government were criticising the HCA for the soft approach to regulation they had chosen to take;

Consumer regulation
THE COMMITTEE'S COMMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS:

• Having reviewed the evidence we are not completely assured that the Regulator is discharging his responsibilities as we would expect. First, he has interpreted his remit as narrowly as possible. In responding to our report we request that he explain and justify his application of a test that breaches of standards should be systemic when he assesses serious detriment caused to tenants by a breach of consumer standards. Second, we formed the impression that the Regulator has treated consumer regulation as a distraction from his main job, economic regulation.
- The work of the Regulation Committee of the Homes and Communities Agency: the Regulation Committee's Response to the Committee's Second Report of Session 2013-14 - Communities and Local Government Committee

https://www.publications.parliament.uk/ ... /83604.htm

http://libcom.org/news/monopoly-board-c ... 7#comments

[wutang]

from the above link

also be aware of the much wider cutting back of both 'statutory' and other related and enforceable 'regulations' together with the 'inspection regimes' meant to enforce some of these. Quoted in a UK Guardian letter from the government website boasting that ''Over 2,400 regulations scrapped through the Red Tape Challenge; Saving home builders and councils around £100m by reducing 100s of locally applied housing standards to 5 national standards; £90m annual savings to business from Defra reducing environmental guidance by over 80%; Businesses with good records have had fire safety inspections reduced from 6 hours to 45 minutes, allowing managers to quickly get back to their day job'' And with little or no regard to the consequences.