No London Fire Thread?

Try To Keep it News Based Rather Than Racism/Muslim Droning.
Keep The Personal Insults And Trolling In The Arms.
And, Login Punk!

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Mon Jun 19, 2017 1:39 pm

wutang wrote:More stats on empty houses in Kensington here

https://whoownsengland.org/2017/06/18/w ... ensington/



That's a great website.

Funnily enough I was discussing land reform with a friend of mine before this tragedy took place (which is how I know of it) and how we, as a society, find ourselves in the ludicrous situation where we apparently think it is acceptable that people live crammed like ants in an anthill in small parcels of land despite something like 90% of land being undeveloped and how the political class fiercely defend the interests of a select number of property owners (and what universal suffrage was meant to undermine in the first place.)

IIRC everyone in the UK could have an acre of land to themselves if we divided it equally / fairly.
User avatar
Avon Barksdale
 
Posts: 6530
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: out of the saddle and climbing

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:25 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote: how the political class fiercely defend the interests of a select number of property owners (and what universal suffrage was meant to undermine in the first place.)



That was Thatchers dream - a property owning democracy, which historically meant only those who owned property were allowed any say. That dream died with the crash of 08-09 but in its place has grown a more insidious form - the buy-to-let class. Those who were able to invest in buying up the houses of the recession's victims now reliant on feeding off the ever increasing rents of those at the mercy of the rental market. There is an unholy alliance between them and your average homeowner who needs to keep property prices high (and are not effected by high rents).

This is the Tory core constituency so there is no compulsion for the Government to change anything.

On the plus side it means the young wont become Tory voters as they get older, as in generally the case, as they have no chance of owning any property.
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:36 pm

wutang wrote:
On the plus side it means the young wont become Tory voters as they get older, as in generally the case, as they have no chance of owning any property.


Yes, I think you're probably right there. Even relying on inherited property won't be a viable option given people are living longer and the increased costs of social care.

House price inflation needs to be rectified. I think most homeowners realise that, unless they want to cash in and move abroad, ludicrously high prices are in no one's interests rather than the very rich. People are trapped in smaller houses than they would like because the jump up to a bigger property is simply unachievable as a realistic multiplier of wages.

This also goes to the point of the inherent unfairness of income flowing to capital (property) rather than wages over the last few decades. People who haven't seen a real rise in wages in over a decade (of which there are far more than property tycoons) are bound to break at some point.
User avatar
Avon Barksdale
 
Posts: 6530
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: out of the saddle and climbing

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:50 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
wutang wrote:
On the plus side it means the young wont become Tory voters as they get older, as in generally the case, as they have no chance of owning any property.


Yes, I think you're probably right there. Even relying on inherited property won't be a viable option given people are living longer and the increased costs of social care.

House price inflation needs to be rectified. I think most homeowners realise that, unless they want to cash in and move abroad, ludicrously high prices are in no one's interests rather than the very rich. People are trapped in smaller houses than they would like because the jump up to a bigger property is simply unachievable as a realistic multiplier of wages.

This also goes to the point of the inherent unfairness of income flowing to capital (property) rather than wages over the last few decades. People who haven't seen a real rise in wages in over a decade (of which there are far more than property tycoons) are bound to break at some point.



Yeah, which is why the dementia tax was such a dumb idea on a purely political level. The people affected by that are the very people voting Tory - older home owners.

The last part of your post is why the argument that 'inequality doesn't matter is so short-termist'. One problem with most of the wealth going into less and less hands is these people need some way to reinvest it and the model they have chosen is the rentier economy- not investment to produce but investment to monopolise, then extract higher and higher rents from everybody else to use a service they have no other access to.

UBER is a perfect example of this:
wages keep falling means more people cant afford to own a car let alone run one (already seeing this happening amongst the younger generation).
UBER monopolises the market in hired cars
UBER can bleed everyone dry (the alternative is public transport which itself has become too expensive due to privatisation)

Its almost feudalistic in a way :ooer:
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:00 pm

wutang wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
wutang wrote:
On the plus side it means the young wont become Tory voters as they get older, as in generally the case, as they have no chance of owning any property.


Yes, I think you're probably right there. Even relying on inherited property won't be a viable option given people are living longer and the increased costs of social care.

House price inflation needs to be rectified. I think most homeowners realise that, unless they want to cash in and move abroad, ludicrously high prices are in no one's interests rather than the very rich. People are trapped in smaller houses than they would like because the jump up to a bigger property is simply unachievable as a realistic multiplier of wages.

This also goes to the point of the inherent unfairness of income flowing to capital (property) rather than wages over the last few decades. People who haven't seen a real rise in wages in over a decade (of which there are far more than property tycoons) are bound to break at some point.



Yeah, which is why the dementia tax was such a dumb idea on a purely political level. The people affected by that are the very people voting Tory - older home owners.

The last part of your post is why the argument that 'inequality doesn't matter is so short-termist'. One problem with most of the wealth going into less and less hands is these people need some way to reinvest it and the model they have chosen is the rentier economy- not investment to produce but investment to monopolise, then extract higher and higher rents from everybody else to use a service they have no other access to.

UBER is a perfect example of this:
wages keep falling means more people cant afford to own a car let alone run one (already seeing this happening amongst the younger generation).
UBER monopolises the market in hired cars
UBER can bleed everyone dry (the alternative is public transport which itself has become too expensive due to privatisation)

Its almost feudalistic in a way :ooer:


Good lord, it seems like today is the day I agree with everything you say...as I agree with all of that. I presume we have different solutions on how to achieve a fairer and and more equal society as we sit at different points politically but this rapacious / crony capitalism isn't in the interests of the significant majority of the people of this land.

Incidentally, the dementia tax was, at heart, a quite old Labour policy sold by the Conservatives and opposed by left leaning parties. It shows on many things they are swapping clothes with each other without a clear idea of where their true principles lie.
User avatar
Avon Barksdale
 
Posts: 6530
Joined: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:49 pm
Location: out of the saddle and climbing

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby McAz » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:03 pm

Winstanley must be smiling. :smilin:
User avatar
McAz
 
Posts: 21681
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:57 am

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:17 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Good lord, it seems like today is the day I agree with everything you say...as I agree with all of that. I presume we have different solutions on how to achieve a fairer and and more equal society as we sit at different points politically but this rapacious / crony capitalism isn't in the interests of the significant majority of the people of this land.



I think we tend to agree on defining the problems, its, as you pointed out, how to solve them that we go our seperate ways.

Avon Barksdale wrote:Incidentally, the dementia tax was, at heart, a quite old Labour policy sold by the Conservatives and opposed by left leaning parties. It shows on many things they are swapping clothes with each other without a clear idea of where their true principles lie.


That is one of the issues people on the radical left are trying to warn about - Labour co-opting the anti-Tory sentiment without owning up to their own complicity and changing.

To tie this back into the Grenfell tower issue: Labour councils, especially in London, have been guilty of being shit on housing as well (in hock to the same outsourcing/privatisation racket), Southwark council quite rightly get shit on this. If things are to change then all those who stand in the way - whether Tory or Labour - need to be opposed.
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby rollup » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:19 pm

wutang wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote: how the political class fiercely defend the interests of a select number of property owners (and what universal suffrage was meant to undermine in the first place.)



That was Thatchers dream - a property owning democracy, which historically meant only those who owned property were allowed any say. That dream died with the crash of 08-09 but in its place has grown a more insidious form - the buy-to-let class. Those who were able to invest in buying up the houses of the recession's victims now reliant on feeding off the ever increasing rents of those at the mercy of the rental market. There is an unholy alliance between them and your average homeowner who needs to keep property prices high (and are not effected by high rents).

This is the Tory core constituency so there is no compulsion for the Government to change anything.

On the plus side it means the young wont become Tory voters as they get older, as in generally the case, as they have no chance of owning any property.

It died long before then.
It died when interest rates and inflation caused the reposession of thousands upon thousands of recently bought homes while Thatcher was still premier.
https://www.reverbnation.com/jackbackband
https://soundcloud.com/jacksbackband
User avatar
rollup
 
Posts: 16661
Joined: Sat Apr 27, 2013 5:14 pm
Location: Wales and 49.0000° N, 6.0000° E

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:34 pm

rollup wrote:It died long before then.
It died when interest rates and inflation caused the reposession of thousands upon thousands of recently bought homes while Thatcher was still premier.


That was the first warning sign but homeownership started growing again afterwards. Now its fallen back to lowest level since 86

Image
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 5:58 pm

Image

40% of Tories and 47% of Ukippers support Corbyns proposal to requisition vacant luxury properties for the Grenfell Tower victims
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Vam » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:07 pm

wutang wrote:Image

40% of Tories and 47% of Ukippers support Corbyns proposal to requisition vacant luxury properties for the Grenfell Tower victims


I seriously doubt that's ever going to happen, so you and Jezza and Di can dream on.

Do the vacant properties have to be "luxury" by the way? A resentful, green-eyed little git like you would love that to be a prerequisite, wouldn't you? :mrgreen:
User avatar
Vam
 
Posts: 10451
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 10:57 am

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Guest » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:11 pm

Vam wrote:
wutang wrote:Image

40% of Tories and 47% of Ukippers support Corbyns proposal to requisition vacant luxury properties for the Grenfell Tower victims


I seriously doubt that's ever going to happen, so you and Jezza and Di can dream on.

Do the vacant properties have to be "luxury" by the way? A resentful, green-eyed little git like you would love that to be a prerequisite, wouldn't you? :mrgreen:


Why are the Conservatives now looking at this today?
User avatar
Guest
 

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby McAz » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:16 pm

Vam wrote:Do the vacant properties have to be "luxury" by the way? A resentful, green-eyed little git like you would love that to be a prerequisite, wouldn't you? :mrgreen:


It's mostly what they have in K&C - the shabby stuff is prone to disaster.
User avatar
McAz
 
Posts: 21681
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2013 10:57 am

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby wutang » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:17 pm

Vam wrote:Do the vacant properties have to be "luxury" by the way? A resentful, green-eyed little git like you would love that to be a prerequisite, wouldn't you? :mrgreen:


No shortage of luxury in Kensington:

Last year most property sales in Kensington And Chelsea involved flats which sold for on average £1,370,825. Terraced properties sold for an average price of £4,285,605, while semi-detached properties fetched £6,818,538.

Kensington And Chelsea, with an overall average price of £1,989,412 was more expensive than nearby Hammersmith And Fulham (£949,102), Ealing (£566,652) and Hounslow (£483,052). The priciest area within Kensington And Chelsea was Brompton (£2,976,165) and the least expensive was Earls Court (£1,284,834).



At these prices you have to wondner why so many properties are left empty (some have stood empty for 15 years) ?

Oh thats right.... greed
The problem with Margaret Thatcher quotes is you eventually run out of them cause she's dead."
User avatar
wutang
 
Posts: 4941
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 11:02 am
Location: Globalist Department, Frankfurt School

Re: No London Fire Thread?

Postby Si_Crewe » Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:20 pm

Vam wrote:Do the vacant properties have to be "luxury" by the way? A resentful, green-eyed little git like you would love that to be a prerequisite, wouldn't you? :mrgreen:


Of course they do.

We have to do as much as possible to retain the whole "us and them" mentality whenever possible.

And, besides, Corbyn might be naive enough to have sincere motives for suggesting this but you can be abso-fucking-lutely sure that the real fun people like Wutang will get is from installing poor people in rich people's houses and then laughing at the subsequent shenanigans when it then takes years, and costs thousands, to get them evicted when they refuse to leave - only for the owners to find that their properties have been all-but destroyed and there are rooms filled with bottles of piss, bags of shit and piles of used needles.

Cos, y'know; fuck the rich.

And, to be perfectly clear; that's NOT a jibe against the residents of Grenfell Tower.
It's a comment on what people like Wutang are overjoyed about the possibility of.
User avatar
Si_Crewe
 
Posts: 4499
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:33 am

PreviousNext

Return to News, Politics And Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests