No London Fire Thread?

[Guest]

There is a 'stay put' policy, unless your flat is affected by smoke or flames. There was smoke all over the place yet people were still staying in their flats

[Avon Barksdale]

Talk of corporate manslaughter growing.
Wonder if any are packing their bags and getting the passport ready to do a runner.

Same thing happened at Lakanal House in Southwark which only lead to a (significant) fine.

Corporate manslaughter is very difficult to prove so I doubt anyone's going to do a runner. Probably getting lawyered up though.

[Avon Barksdale]

As a Londoner I have to say that the spirit and generosity of the people of this great city following this disaster has been breath taking.

It spans race, religion, gender, the young, the old.

Serious questions need to be answered but for now we'll get on with helping those in need.

[wutang]

'The richest council in the country and there's not enough money to refurbish the fire escape?'

As early as March, local councillor Judith Blakeman, had raised the fears of residents surrounding the installation of gas pipes in the main stairwell of Grenfell Tower.

The landlord assured councillor Blakeman that these pipes would be protected and fireproofed, but this precaution was not carried out.

Cllr Blakeman also made a request for an independent safety check on the building, but this was declined.

“I was treated like I was a nuisance,” she said. “I raised 19 complaints on behalf of individual residents. Every single time we were told that the board had satisfied itself that the fire safety was fine.”

She continued saying, "the only fire escape which was the single stair well which was not part of the refurbishment."

http://www.irishnews.com/news/uknews/20 ... --1056810/

[Stooo]

Can anyone please recommend the most reputable (& most tightly controlled and monitored) Crowd Funding/Just Giving site?

I'm a bit out of the loop out here, and there seems to be so many options to donate Are they all guaranteed to be trustworthy?

justgiving is legit.

[Vam]

Can anyone please recommend the most reputable (& most tightly controlled and monitored) Crowd Funding/Just Giving site?

I'm a bit out of the loop out here, and there seems to be so many options to donate Are they all guaranteed to be trustworthy?

justgiving is legit.

Cheers, Stooo

It's just been confirmed that a criminal investigation is being rolled out. I'm sensing a gaggle of salivating lawyers right about now...

[wutang]

Serious questions need to be answered but for now we'll get on with helping those in need.

Sadly the residents of the tower foresaw that these questions would be ignored until it was too late:

This was written in Nov 2016:

It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... tory-ears/

Same thing happened at Lakanal House in Southwark which only lead to a (significant) fine

Worse than that...

Theresa May’s New Advisor Gavin Barwell Failed To Review Tower Block Fire Regulations - Despite Four Years Of Warnings

Gavin Barwell was Housing Minister until he lost his seat in the General Election

Theresa May’s new chief of staff failed to carry out a review of fire regulations in tower blocks – despite being warned of the potential for a devastating blaze.

Former Housing Minster Gavin Barwell – who was given a top Downing Street job within days of losing his seat last week – refused to give a date for when the review of regulations would take place just eight months ago.

The review was called for after an inquest into a tower block fire in Camberwell, south-east London, which killed six people and injured 20 in 2009, ruled the regulations covering such buildings were not up to scratch.

Another coroner ruled in 2013 that all high-rise buildings should be retro-fitted with sprinklers - but Barwell’s predecessor as Housing Minister Brandon Lewis said it was not the “responsibility” of the Government to pass such a law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... d4fbe45929

[Keyser]

A match made in Hell...

[Stooo]

Can anyone please recommend the most reputable (& most tightly controlled and monitored) Crowd Funding/Just Giving site?

I'm a bit out of the loop out here, and there seems to be so many options to donate Are they all guaranteed to be trustworthy?

justgiving is legit.

Cheers, Stooo

It's just been confirmed that a criminal investigation is being rolled out. I'm sensing a gaggle of salivating lawyers right about now...

They are 85% towards a target of a million.

Public pressure will accelerate the investigation, if the news that I'm hearing is true then we may well be voting again and soon!

[Guest]

A match made in Hell...

What's that zit on his neck?

Spoiler: show

oh it's his head

[Guest]

Serious questions need to be answered but for now we'll get on with helping those in need.

Sadly the residents of the tower foresaw that these questions would be ignored until it was too late:

This was written in Nov 2016:

It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.c ... tory-ears/

Same thing happened at Lakanal House in Southwark which only lead to a (significant) fine

Worse than that...

Theresa May’s New Advisor Gavin Barwell Failed To Review Tower Block Fire Regulations - Despite Four Years Of Warnings

Gavin Barwell was Housing Minister until he lost his seat in the General Election

Theresa May’s new chief of staff failed to carry out a review of fire regulations in tower blocks – despite being warned of the potential for a devastating blaze.

Former Housing Minster Gavin Barwell – who was given a top Downing Street job within days of losing his seat last week – refused to give a date for when the review of regulations would take place just eight months ago.

The review was called for after an inquest into a tower block fire in Camberwell, south-east London, which killed six people and injured 20 in 2009, ruled the regulations covering such buildings were not up to scratch.

Another coroner ruled in 2013 that all high-rise buildings should be retro-fitted with sprinklers - but Barwell’s predecessor as Housing Minister Brandon Lewis said it was not the “responsibility” of the Government to pass such a law.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/g ... d4fbe45929

I'm sure those who call out inept politicians - well one black one - will be all over this thread like a rash.

[Guest]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... n-grenfell

Ipswich firm Celotex confirmed it provided insulation materials for the refurbishment. The material has the most stringent “class 0” fire rating in building standards regulations but independent tests on the material used to make it, polyisocyanurate, show that in intense fires it can release lethal hydrogen cyanide fumes and can be rapidly fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

A hydrogen cyanide concentration in the range of 100–200 ppm in air will kill a human within 10 to 60 minutes. A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 2000 ppm (about 2380 mg/m3) will kill a human in about 1 minute. The toxicity is caused by the cyanide ion, which halts cellular respiration by acting as a non-competitive inhibitor for an enzyme in mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase. Specifically CN− binds to iron in the heme subunit in cytochromes, interrupting electron transfer.

Hydrogen cyanide gas in air is explosive at concentrations over 5.6%. This is far above its toxicity level.

[Guest]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/jun/15/experts-warned-government-against-cladding-material-used-on-grenfell

Ipswich firm Celotex confirmed it provided insulation materials for the refurbishment. The material has the most stringent “class 0” fire rating in building standards regulations but independent tests on the material used to make it, polyisocyanurate, show that in intense fires it can release lethal hydrogen cyanide fumes and can be rapidly fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_cyanide

A hydrogen cyanide concentration in the range of 100–200 ppm in air will kill a human within 10 to 60 minutes. A hydrogen cyanide concentration of 2000 ppm (about 2380 mg/m3) will kill a human in about 1 minute. The toxicity is caused by the cyanide ion, which halts cellular respiration by acting as a non-competitive inhibitor for an enzyme in mitochondria called cytochrome c oxidase. Specifically CN− binds to iron in the heme subunit in cytochromes, interrupting electron transfer.

Hydrogen cyanide gas in air is explosive at concentrations over 5.6%. This is far above its toxicity level.

There is also the cyanide gas released from old furnishings. The foam within the cladding clearly fed the fire and windows opened on a very hot night would have allowed it to enter inside too. What isn't clear are the rumours about the stairwell catching fire? People spoke of it stinking in there maybe from old furniture being dumped and people using it as a urinal, or something else. All speculations but lots of questions will need to be asked and answered in the public enquiry.

[Holly]

I hope there will be a criminal investigation and people responsible for this catastrophe, will have to pay a monumental price for it.
No way was this just an unfortunate accident, IMO, this was at the very least manslaughter.

It's heartbreaking to watch the news and see how many children had to die ( still unaccounted for ) plus the people who were fortunate enough to get out, having to watch their relatives, friends and neighbours perish in front of their eyes while screaming for help. How can anyone ever get over this?

[Guest]

I hope there will be a criminal investigation and people responsible for this catastrophe, will have to pay a monumental price for it.
No way was this just an unfortunate accident, IMO, this was at the very least manslaughter.

It's heartbreaking to watch the news and see how many children had to die ( still unaccounted for ) plus the people who were fortunate enough to get out, having to watch their relatives, friends and neighbours perish in front of their eyes while screaming for help. How can anyone ever get over this?

The local Conservative Council refused to buy the non-flammable cladding.
Non flammable cladding £24 a piece
Flammable cladding £22 a piece

Extra cost to the block £5,000

So the Tories saved FIVE GRAND but are responsible for God knows how many deaths.

Vote Tory, save money and cull the poorest.