Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby wutang » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:31 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Well of course they will because despite of the efforts of the liberal elite who run our society, the majority of people don't agree with homosexuals adopting children.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73271.html

44% dont agree with gay adoption
49% do agree with it

Not quite the majority you were hoping for.

In 1983

87% didn't agree with gay adoption
8% did agree

And its mostly older people who disagree with it now, younger people in favour. So society is becoming less and less opposed.

You are a relic from the past :shake head:
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:47 pm

wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Well of course they will because despite of the efforts of the liberal elite who run our society, the majority of people don't agree with homosexuals adopting children.


http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 73271.html

44% dont agree with gay adoption
49% do agree with it

Not quite the majority you were hoping for.

In 1983

87% didn't agree with gay adoption
8% did agree

And its mostly older people who disagree with it now, younger people in favour. So society is becoming less and less opposed.

You are a relic from the past :shake head:


You are are gullible nob - I reckon the reality is it hasn't changed much except maybe a few more percent for the 'agrees' due to a younger generation being force fed on the 'normality' of homosexualism.

I don't know when you lot will understand, or if you ever will but people will say what they feel is the required answer, more often than not these days because they fear prosecution if they say otherwise. The loss of free speech and expression is the price we pay for minorities to feel at home.

Put the same question to the country in an anonymous ballot and I doubt there would be much difference from the 1980's vote. Driving people's opinions underground doesn't stop the way they feel or think. :thumbsup:

My personal opinion on homosexuals being allowed to adopt small children is that its nothing short of state authorised child abuse.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:22 pm

Mekon wrote:Respectable research rather than knee jerk reactions by the ill-informed suggests otherwise. Pew Research Center, CNN and Opinion Research Corp found that 57% of respondents in the United States felt gays should have the right to adopt and 40% said they should not. In the United Kingdom, 64% of people said they thought gay couples should be allowed to adopt and 32% said they should not. 55% of respondents thought that male couples should be able to adopt and 59% of people thought that lesbian couples should be able to adopt.


Isn't adoption supposed to be about what's best for the child in question, and not about any perceived 'rights' of the adoptive parents, gay or otherwise?

Why put a child through the ordeal of having a couple of gay fellas as parents, just to meet those 'rights'?

And don't come out with that 'gays can provide a loving family' bollocks either.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby wutang » Wed Oct 11, 2017 3:59 pm

Trapper John wrote:My personal opinion on homosexuals being allowed to adopt small children is that its nothing short of state authorised child abuse.



As the poll shows you are out-of-touch with the modern world.

Thankfully views like yours are destined for the dustbin of history :hap:
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby malamute » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:Respectable research rather than knee jerk reactions by the ill-informed suggests otherwise. Pew Research Center, CNN and Opinion Research Corp found that 57% of respondents in the United States felt gays should have the right to adopt and 40% said they should not. In the United Kingdom, 64% of people said they thought gay couples should be allowed to adopt and 32% said they should not. 55% of respondents thought that male couples should be able to adopt and 59% of people thought that lesbian couples should be able to adopt.


Isn't adoption supposed to be about what's best for the child in question, and not about any perceived 'rights' of the adoptive parents, gay or otherwise?

Why put a child through the ordeal of having a couple of gay fellas as parents, just to meet those 'rights'?

And don't come out with that 'gays can provide a loving family' bollocks either.


I agree that the child's rights should be Paramount but how can you ask a baby about their rights and imagine the trouble the social workers would get in if they turned down a gay couple?

I have friends who adopted a baby girl four months ago and she's just had her first birthday. They've been waiting nearly 10 years to adopt a baby.

I imagine if you asked any primary school aged child what kind of family they would like to adopt them most would say they would like a mother and a father.

When my son was at primary school he was friends with a lovely little lad. His father was a pig though and took his fancy woman into their house and made his wife sleep in the spare room. Typing this I can still feel the distress and embarrassment that the little boy went through at school for many years when other kids found out. It's not normal and kids just want to feel "normal".
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:21 pm

malamute wrote:
I agree that the child's rights should be Paramount but how can you ask a baby about their rights and imagine the trouble the social workers would get in if they turned down a gay couple?



The interests of the child are paramount and the social workers wouldn't get "in trouble" for acting in that way, no matter if the couple is gay or not.

Even if the social workers believed a gay couple were fit to adopt it is an independent adoption panel which approves eligibility. Then further approval is needed from a panel to place a specific child.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:45 pm

malamute wrote:I agree that the child's rights should be Paramount but how can you ask a baby about their rights and imagine the trouble the social workers would get in if they turned down a gay couple?

I have friends who adopted a baby girl four months ago and she's just had her first birthday. They've been waiting nearly 10 years to adopt a baby.

I imagine if you asked any primary school aged child what kind of family they would like to adopt them most would say they would like a mother and a father.

When my son was at primary school he was friends with a lovely little lad. His father was a pig though and took his fancy woman into their house and made his wife sleep in the spare room. Typing this I can still feel the distress and embarrassment that the little boy went through at school for many years when other kids found out. It's not normal and kids just want to feel "normal".


Of course, some gay couples will be able to provide a 'loving home' - which is the angle those with pro gay rights approach the subject from. They often compare a 'loving gay couple' with an abusive straight couple, and point out the child would have been better off with the gay couple in a specific case. Which is true.

However, a gay couple are just as likely to be worse parents than a straight couple, as this case in question proves. So it's swings and roundabouts as to who can provide the 'loving home', and not gender-related.

Putting aside 'loving home' top trumps, which without the cherry picking, can go either way, there are big negatives
about gay adoption. The two obvious ones being the stigma and amount of bullying the child is likely to suffer (pro gays will play this down), plus lack of both a male and female influence (pro gays will often cite an aunt or female family friend who will provide that - an unnecessary requirement for a straight couple though).

Meanwhile, there doesn't appear to be any positives at all specifically associated with having homosexual parents. Could any of the pro-gays out there let us know what these might be? Because from where I'm sitting, there aren't any.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:22 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Meanwhile, there doesn't appear to be any positives at all specifically associated with having homosexual parents. Could any of the pro-gays out there let us know what these might be? Because from where I'm sitting, there aren't any.


Do you mean in the hypothetical situation where you have a straight couple and a gay couple wishing to adopt a child and they are equal in all things (eg financial situation, stability of relationship etc) except for their sexuality / nature of their relationship?

In that scenario then given the current make up of society I think the child should be placed with the heterosexual couple.

However, life isn't that clean cut and getting kids out of the care system and into loving, stable, permanent homes is definitely the way to go.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:32 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Meanwhile, there doesn't appear to be any positives at all specifically associated with having homosexual parents. Could any of the pro-gays out there let us know what these might be? Because from where I'm sitting, there aren't any.


Do you mean in the hypothetical situation where you have a straight couple and a gay couple wishing to adopt a child and they are equal in all things (eg financial situation, stability of relationship etc) except for their sexuality / nature of their relationship?

In that scenario then given the current make up of society I think the child should be placed with the heterosexual couple.

However, life isn't that clean cut and getting kids out of the care system and into loving, stable, permanent homes is definitely the way to go.


Yes, all things being equal (as much as they can be), the straight couple should always be the better choice than the gay couple.

Which is the very thing those in favour of gay adoption dispute.

Whether it turns out to be a 'loving' or 'non-loving' home is an unknown factor at the point of adoption, but on paper, the gay couple are a clear second choice.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Oct 11, 2017 5:39 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Meanwhile, there doesn't appear to be any positives at all specifically associated with having homosexual parents. Could any of the pro-gays out there let us know what these might be? Because from where I'm sitting, there aren't any.


Do you mean in the hypothetical situation where you have a straight couple and a gay couple wishing to adopt a child and they are equal in all things (eg financial situation, stability of relationship etc) except for their sexuality / nature of their relationship?

In that scenario then given the current make up of society I think the child should be placed with the heterosexual couple.

However, life isn't that clean cut and getting kids out of the care system and into loving, stable, permanent homes is definitely the way to go.


Yes, all things being equal (as much as they can be), the straight couple should always be the better choice than the gay couple.

Which is the very thing those in favour of gay adoption dispute.

Whether it turns out to be a 'loving' or 'non-loving' home is an unknown factor at the point of adoption, but on paper, the gay couple are a clear second choice.


Sure, I wasn't certain I was reading you correctly.

The interests of the child must be paramount as stated before and that means placing them in a family situation which reduces their exposure to negative experiences to the lowest level possible. That may seem a little unfair but the rights of the child trump the rights of anyone to experience the joy of parenthood.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Stooo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:10 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
malamute wrote:I agree that the child's rights should be Paramount but how can you ask a baby about their rights and imagine the trouble the social workers would get in if they turned down a gay couple?

I have friends who adopted a baby girl four months ago and she's just had her first birthday. They've been waiting nearly 10 years to adopt a baby.

I imagine if you asked any primary school aged child what kind of family they would like to adopt them most would say they would like a mother and a father.

When my son was at primary school he was friends with a lovely little lad. His father was a pig though and took his fancy woman into their house and made his wife sleep in the spare room. Typing this I can still feel the distress and embarrassment that the little boy went through at school for many years when other kids found out. It's not normal and kids just want to feel "normal".


Of course, some gay couples will be able to provide a 'loving home' - which is the angle those with pro gay rights approach the subject from. They often compare a 'loving gay couple' with an abusive straight couple, and point out the child would have been better off with the gay couple in a specific case. Which is true.

However, a gay couple are just as likely to be worse parents than a straight couple, as this case in question proves. So it's swings and roundabouts as to who can provide the 'loving home', and not gender-related.

Putting aside 'loving home' top trumps, which without the cherry picking, can go either way, there are big negatives
about gay adoption. The two obvious ones being the stigma and amount of bullying the child is likely to suffer (pro gays will play this down), plus lack of both a male and female influence (pro gays will often cite an aunt or female family friend who will provide that - an unnecessary requirement for a straight couple though).

Meanwhile, there doesn't appear to be any positives at all specifically associated with having homosexual parents. Could any of the pro-gays out there let us know what these might be? Because from where I'm sitting, there aren't any.


I'm not sure how I can be pro-gay but I am pro-equal opportunities. Being gay is not a huge deal to kids these days, it's sort of ignored because it's accepted by that generation. Bullying is not an issue.

I was a single father, there wasn't much of a female influence in my kids' lives.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:49 pm

Stooo wrote:I'm not sure how I can be pro-gay but I am pro-equal opportunities. Being gay is not a huge deal to kids these days, it's sort of ignored because it's accepted by that generation. Bullying is not an issue.

I was a single father, there wasn't much of a female influence in my kids' lives.



Wtf - 'equal opportunities'? - this is a child welfare issue, and has no more to do with equal opportunities than it has with gay rights.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Stooo » Wed Oct 11, 2017 7:51 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Stooo wrote:I'm not sure how I can be pro-gay but I am pro-equal opportunities. Being gay is not a huge deal to kids these days, it's sort of ignored because it's accepted by that generation. Bullying is not an issue.

I was a single father, there wasn't much of a female influence in my kids' lives.



Wtf - 'equal opportunities'? - this is a child welfare issue, and has no more to do with equal opportunities than it has with gay rights.


I was addressing specific bits of your post
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Guest » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:14 pm

Trapper John wrote:
My personal opinion on homosexuals being allowed to adopt small children is that its nothing short of state authorised child abuse.


Why ? are Homosexuals that different from Heterosexual Couples.

Explain the difference !
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Stooo wrote:I was addressing specific bits of your post


So do you agree, the child's welfare is paramount, and nothing else should matter, including equal opportunities and gay rights?

Being gay is rightly not such a big deal as it used to be - I went to school in a South London comp in the 1970s, and I can assure you that if two Tom of Finland types turned up to watch me play football, my life as I knew it would have been over.

I feel political correctness, liberal brainwashing, and authorities & organisations fear of being labelled with any phobia or ism, means we have gone too far the other way now. We live in times where small children can claim to be 'gender fluid' have gender realignment treatment as young as 12, boys wear skirts to school, and kids can claim to be the opposite sex on a whim. All at the behest of their liberal-minded parents.

So having gay dads would be fine, providing they only ever encountered like-minded people - unfortunately for them though, they won't. In the real world, it will be a burden and they will be bullied.
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