Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Try To Keep it News Based Rather Than Racism/Muslim Droning.
Keep The Personal Insults And Trolling In The Arms.
And, Login Punk!

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:01 pm

wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I fail to see how a poll of what? a hundred, two hundred, a thousand people even is representative of 'the majority of people' particularly when every week we hear of many thousands of people, who I doubt you'd describe as 'old folk' singing degrogatory songs about homosexuals from the football terraces......just a hunch but I doubt they agree with gay adoption. :dunno:



"Many thousands" out of tens of thousands.

So a vast minority :thumbsup:


Maybe the rest just don't sing-a-long because they either don't want to be banned or even arrested under the all embracing trumped up laws typically described as 'Hate Crimes' :dunno:
Dear Lord, save us from the wrath of the Tartars
User avatar
Trapper John
Gunner.
 
Posts: 31369
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: The Emirates Stadium, Islington, London N5

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:09 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained.


Yes, I think those were criteria used in Romanian orphanages after the fall of Ceausescu, I wonder where most of them are now. :shake head:

I'm surprised to learn that you prefer the discredited Communist method of dealing with children in need by locking them away in institutions. Is this EDL policy?


I wouldn't know, does the EDL have a policy on anything? :dunno:

I'm surprised you prefer a method of handing over thousands of defenceless and vulnerable kids to child traffickers and deviants from around the world, just because they could afford to pay for them. :shake head:

Since you put so much effort into defending one of their number who committed a crime against a child, even going so far as to raise it again on another thread, not unreasonably I thought you might know EDL policy on adoption.

Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:14 pm

Trapper John wrote:
wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I fail to see how a poll of what? a hundred, two hundred, a thousand people even is representative of 'the majority of people' particularly when every week we hear of many thousands of people, who I doubt you'd describe as 'old folk' singing degrogatory songs about homosexuals from the football terraces......just a hunch but I doubt they agree with gay adoption. :dunno:



"Many thousands" out of tens of thousands.

So a vast minority :thumbsup:


Maybe the rest just don't sing-a-long because they either don't want to be banned or even arrested under the all embracing trumped up laws typically described as 'Hate Crimes' :dunno:


Are all football supporters homophobic?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:21 pm

Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained.


Yes, I think those were criteria used in Romanian orphanages after the fall of Ceausescu, I wonder where most of them are now. :shake head:

I'm surprised to learn that you prefer the discredited Communist method of dealing with children in need by locking them away in institutions. Is this EDL policy?


I wouldn't know, does the EDL have a policy on anything? :dunno:

I'm surprised you prefer a method of handing over thousands of defenceless and vulnerable kids to child traffickers and deviants from around the world, just because they could afford to pay for them. :shake head:

Since you put so much effort into defending one of their number who committed a crime against a child, even going so far as to raise it again on another thread, not unreasonably I thought you might know EDL policy on adoption.

Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?


Why do you reply to every question with another question, do you not understand the dynamics of debate? :dunno:

I think I clearly stated that the criteria you mentioned was the same as that stated by the Romanian government when dispenseing with it's troublesome orphanage population, unfortunately I can't help you further because the technology doesn't exist to make my posts in braille.
Dear Lord, save us from the wrath of the Tartars
User avatar
Trapper John
Gunner.
 
Posts: 31369
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: The Emirates Stadium, Islington, London N5

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:22 pm

Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I fail to see how a poll of what? a hundred, two hundred, a thousand people even is representative of 'the majority of people' particularly when every week we hear of many thousands of people, who I doubt you'd describe as 'old folk' singing degrogatory songs about homosexuals from the football terraces......just a hunch but I doubt they agree with gay adoption. :dunno:



"Many thousands" out of tens of thousands.

So a vast minority :thumbsup:


Maybe the rest just don't sing-a-long because they either don't want to be banned or even arrested under the all embracing trumped up laws typically described as 'Hate Crimes' :dunno:


Are all football supporters homophobic?


Go ask them :thumbsup:
Dear Lord, save us from the wrath of the Tartars
User avatar
Trapper John
Gunner.
 
Posts: 31369
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: The Emirates Stadium, Islington, London N5

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:40 pm

Mekon wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:Respectable research rather than knee jerk reactions by the ill-informed suggests otherwise. Pew Research Center, CNN and Opinion Research Corp found that 57% of respondents in the United States felt gays should have the right to adopt and 40% said they should not. In the United Kingdom, 64% of people said they thought gay couples should be allowed to adopt and 32% said they should not. 55% of respondents thought that male couples should be able to adopt and 59% of people thought that lesbian couples should be able to adopt.


Isn't adoption supposed to be about what's best for the child in question, and not about any perceived 'rights' of the adoptive parents, gay or otherwise?

Why put a child through the ordeal of having a couple of gay fellas as parents, just to meet those 'rights'?

And don't come out with that 'gays can provide a loving family' bollocks either.


Only you it seems believe adoption by homosexuals is primarily about gay rights, I had not commented one way or the other. Having falsely attributed this premise to me you then attempt to goad me into defending it. I'm sorry if I don't respond to such obvious trolling but I prefer honest debate.

It does not need to be said that homosexuals can provide a loving environment for children, it is disputed only by fools and those with personal orientation issues.


You've bombarded us with stats from mulitple agencies covering the USA and the UK, showing that gays should have the right to adopt. Presumably you agree with those stats or you wouldn't have posted them. I even highlighted you saying 'gays should have the right to adopt' - aka gay rights'.

No ones 'falsely attributing' anything to you, let alone goading or trolling you. If you can't answer a simple question without getting flustered, just say so.

I'll try again - why should gay rights play any part whatsoever in child welfare issues? Why is so important that gays are allowed to become parents? What do they bring to the table that a straight couple can't?

We already know the disadvantages of having two homosexuals as parents, but no one's managed to come up with any advantages. Saying that 'homosexuals can provide a loving environment' doesn't count - it's already been pointed out several times that a straight couple are just as likely to provide such an environment. Just one positive example will do, I'm sure you can manage it
User avatar
Red Okktober
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:41 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?


Why do you reply to every question with another question, do you not understand the dynamics of debate? :dunno:

I think I clearly stated that the criteria you mentioned was the same as that stated by the Romanian government when dispenseing with it's troublesome orphanage population, unfortunately I can't help you further because the technology doesn't exist to make my posts in braille.


This tread is not about Romania's handling of child adoption so your introduction of it is presumably because you think it has some bearing on that of the UK's. My question is therefore entirely appropriate given the dynamics of debate you seem so keen to nurture, so why not simply answer rather than evading?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:52 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:Respectable research rather than knee jerk reactions by the ill-informed suggests otherwise. Pew Research Center, CNN and Opinion Research Corp found that 57% of respondents in the United States felt gays should have the right to adopt and 40% said they should not. In the United Kingdom, 64% of people said they thought gay couples should be allowed to adopt and 32% said they should not. 55% of respondents thought that male couples should be able to adopt and 59% of people thought that lesbian couples should be able to adopt.


Isn't adoption supposed to be about what's best for the child in question, and not about any perceived 'rights' of the adoptive parents, gay or otherwise?

Why put a child through the ordeal of having a couple of gay fellas as parents, just to meet those 'rights'?

And don't come out with that 'gays can provide a loving family' bollocks either.


Only you it seems believe adoption by homosexuals is primarily about gay rights, I had not commented one way or the other. Having falsely attributed this premise to me you then attempt to goad me into defending it. I'm sorry if I don't respond to such obvious trolling but I prefer honest debate.

It does not need to be said that homosexuals can provide a loving environment for children, it is disputed only by fools and those with personal orientation issues.


You've bombarded us with stats from mulitple agencies covering the USA and the UK, showing that gays should have the right to adopt. Presumably you agree with those stats or you wouldn't have posted them. I even highlighted you saying 'gays should have the right to adopt' - aka gay rights'.

No ones 'falsely attributing' anything to you, let alone goading or trolling you. If you can't answer a simple question without getting flustered, just say so.

I'll try again - why should gay rights play any part whatsoever in child welfare issues? Why is so important that gays are allowed to become parents? What do they bring to the table that a straight couple can't?

We already know the disadvantages of having two homosexuals as parents, but no one's managed to come up with any advantages. Saying that 'homosexuals can provide a loving environment' doesn't count - it's already been pointed out several times that a straight couple are just as likely to provide such an environment. Just one positive example will do, I'm sure you can manage it


I posted those academic findings to counter the knee-jerk and unresearched assertion that the majority of people oppose adoption by homosexuals. You chose to extrapolate a line of contention from a few words of those findings for your own purposes. My views are expressed in an earlier post which I repost here for your convenience:

Mekon - "The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:54 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I fail to see how a poll of what? a hundred, two hundred, a thousand people even is representative of 'the majority of people' particularly when every week we hear of many thousands of people, who I doubt you'd describe as 'old folk' singing degrogatory songs about homosexuals from the football terraces......just a hunch but I doubt they agree with gay adoption. :dunno:



"Many thousands" out of tens of thousands.

So a vast minority :thumbsup:


Maybe the rest just don't sing-a-long because they either don't want to be banned or even arrested under the all embracing trumped up laws typically described as 'Hate Crimes' :dunno:


Are all football supporters homophobic?


Go ask them :thumbsup:


So maybe not then?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:56 pm

Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?


Why do you reply to every question with another question, do you not understand the dynamics of debate? :dunno:

I think I clearly stated that the criteria you mentioned was the same as that stated by the Romanian government when dispenseing with it's troublesome orphanage population, unfortunately I can't help you further because the technology doesn't exist to make my posts in braille.


This tread is not about Romania's handling of child adoption so your introduction of it is presumably because you think it has some bearing on that of the UK's. My question is therefore entirely appropriate given the dynamics of debate you seem so keen to nurture, so why not simply answer rather than evading?


This is the last time i'll answer you, until you can debate sensibly. You made a statement, I answered it with an appropriate reply for that statement, end of.

BTW The last thing I can be accused of is 'evading' anything, unlike you who appears to know how to do nothing else. :thumbsup:
Dear Lord, save us from the wrath of the Tartars
User avatar
Trapper John
Gunner.
 
Posts: 31369
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: The Emirates Stadium, Islington, London N5

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:57 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?


Why do you reply to every question with another question, do you not understand the dynamics of debate? :dunno:

I think I clearly stated that the criteria you mentioned was the same as that stated by the Romanian government when dispenseing with it's troublesome orphanage population, unfortunately I can't help you further because the technology doesn't exist to make my posts in braille.


This tread is not about Romania's handling of child adoption so your introduction of it is presumably because you think it has some bearing on that of the UK's. My question is therefore entirely appropriate given the dynamics of debate you seem so keen to nurture, so why not simply answer rather than evading?


This is the last time i'll answer you, until you can debate sensibly. You made a statement, I answered it with an appropriate reply for that statement, end of.

BTW The last thing I can be accused of is 'evading' anything, unlike you who appears to know how to do nothing else. :thumbsup:


You introduced Romania's handling of adoption into a debate about the UK's. Why if not because you believe that placing children with responsible and loving adults in preference to locking them away in institutions puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:01 pm

Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:Why do you believe that by not locking children away in institutions but instead placing them with responsible and loving adults puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants?


Why do you reply to every question with another question, do you not understand the dynamics of debate? :dunno:

I think I clearly stated that the criteria you mentioned was the same as that stated by the Romanian government when dispenseing with it's troublesome orphanage population, unfortunately I can't help you further because the technology doesn't exist to make my posts in braille.


This tread is not about Romania's handling of child adoption so your introduction of it is presumably because you think it has some bearing on that of the UK's. My question is therefore entirely appropriate given the dynamics of debate you seem so keen to nurture, so why not simply answer rather than evading?


This is the last time i'll answer you, until you can debate sensibly. You made a statement, I answered it with an appropriate reply for that statement, end of.

BTW The last thing I can be accused of is 'evading' anything, unlike you who appears to know how to do nothing else. :thumbsup:


You introduced Romania's handling of adoption into a debate about the UK's. Why?


Look at your statement which I believe I highlighted and you will see you already have your answer, it really is that simple. :thumbsup:

Now that really is the last time. :roll:
Dear Lord, save us from the wrath of the Tartars
User avatar
Trapper John
Gunner.
 
Posts: 31369
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:36 pm
Location: The Emirates Stadium, Islington, London N5

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:05 pm

Mekon wrote:I posted those academic findings to counter the knee-jerk and unresearched assertion that the majority of people oppose adoption by homosexuals. You chose to extrapolate a line of contention from a few words of those findings for your own purposes. My views are expressed in an earlier post which I repost here for your convenience:

Mekon - "The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."


Do you agree or disagree with those 'academic findings'? Only it would be quite a novel approach to post 'academic findings' that opposed your own view. And those so-called academic findings clearly say that 'gays should have the right to adopt'.

A simple yes or no answer will do - do you believe gays should have the right to adopt?

Yes, the child's welfare is paramount, so why would you want to disadvantage it from day one, by removing the all-important female presence in it's upbringing, and giving it the burden of being subject to unnecessary bullying? Advocating gay adoption is pure selfishness, based on the parent's rights, and not the child's welfare.
User avatar
Red Okktober
 
Posts: 1653
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 9:37 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:14 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Look at your statement which I believe I highlighted and you will see you already have your answer, it really is that simple. :thumbsup:

Now that really is the last time. :roll:

And I ask you again. Your introduction into this discussion of Romania's handling of adoption which you say has delivered children into the hands of traffickers and deviants strongly indicates that you believe that placing children with responsible and loving adults using the UK's criteria which I outlined above rather than locking them away in institutions puts them at the mercy of traffickers and deviants? Why do you believe this?
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:30 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Do you agree or disagree with those 'academic findings'? Only it would be quite a novel approach to post 'academic findings' that opposed your own view. And those so-called academic findings clearly say that 'gays should have the right to adopt'.

A simple yes or no answer will do - do you believe gays should have the right to adopt?

Yes, the child's welfare is paramount, so why would you want to disadvantage it from day one, by removing the all-important female presence in it's upbringing, and giving it the burden of being subject to unnecessary bullying? Advocating gay adoption is pure selfishness, based on the parent's rights, and not the child's welfare.


Unless equally rigorous research comes to light which counters these findings I'm bound to accept them unless I believe for good reason that the outcomes have been falsified. Trapper John's 'bloke up the pub' research is not in my view of equal academic rigor.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to adopt. I do believe as stated that:

"The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."

I do not believe children are disadvantaged by providing them with loving carers in the community over care in institutions even though I personally would prefer them not be placed with racists or homophobes.
User avatar
Mekon
 
Posts: 68
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:33 pm

PreviousNext

Return to News, Politics And Current Affairs

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests