Jon Venables.

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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Stooo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:53 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Raggamuffin » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:54 pm

Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.


Why then does the press announce it every time he's back in prison, and why do they always interview Denise Fergus?
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Stooo » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:57 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Do you agree that he might be punishing himself then guest? I've wondered if he looks at this stuff to convince himself that there are others out there which have done things as bad as he's done. I'm not sure how you rehabilitate someone who killed a little kid in such a manner anyway. He hasn't done it again, which I suppose means he's "rehabilitated" to an extent, but I'm never quite sure what it means anyway. If Hindley had been let out of jail, I don't suppose she would have killed another kid, but that didn't matter did it?


He's obviously got well earned inner demons but it remains that these should be personal issues, not something to be picked through on the gossip pages.


Why then does the press announce it every time he's back in prison, and why do they always interview Denise Fergus?


Because it sells newspapers, gets clicks and generates revenue.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Guest » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm

Stooo wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Stooo wrote:[quote="guest"

I think that they both should have been kept anonymous from the start, seriously, what was the point in naming them?


I agree. I don't know why the judge named them, but a fortune has been spent on protecting them.


Because of exactly that.


Didn't he get into trouble for doing that with the judges' professional governance body? (or whatever it's called in England. I'm sure I read something about it in the papers.[/quote]

I can't find anything about that tbh. I think it was a mistake, but I guess he was entitled to lift reporting restrictions. That only applied to their identity though didn't it? I don't think anyone was allowed to say where they were or whatever. He said he allowed them to be named in the public interest, but I really don't see what good it did, or why the general public needed to know who they were.[/quote]

Ah, maybe I was confusing it with a different case.
No, I can't see where the public interest in naming them lies, either, though i can think of a couple of possible reasons why he did.
1. He allowed his own personal feelings of revulsion to outweigh the greater interests of the law - understandable perhaps but highly unprofessional.
2. He wanted to set an example to others - unlikely to be effective though because any other 10 year-olds probably wouldn't understand the concept.
3. Political pressure from the Home Office. Wasn't this around the time of the Tories' Tough on Crime and Back to Basics campaigns? I can see the Govt. being perfectly capable of doing something like that.

To keep it all in one post, I'm not sure that putting Thompson&Venables in an adult prison once they turned 18 is a good idea. I'm not really a fan of charging and sentencing children in the same way as an adult once they reach the age of majority. You end up with the prospect of executing people for crimes they committed as a child, when such penalties were not applicable - I believe this has happened in the US, and it's not a road I want to go down.
There's also the risk that in an adult prison their identities would have become known and they would have become targets for vengeance attacks by other inmates.
I think it would have been a good idea to have placed them in some sort of halfway house type situation, perhaps like an open prison, where they could be monitored and gradually re-introduced to society - Venables doesn't seem to have developed the ability to cope with his "freedom".
It is a very complex matter, I don't see any easy solutions one way or the other. As it stands, Thompson's rehabilitation has been successful, Venables' hasn't. I suppose it depends on whether or not you believe a 50% success rate is worth all the effort expended.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Raggamuffin » Thu Dec 07, 2017 7:47 pm

Guest wrote:
Ah, maybe I was confusing it with a different case.
No, I can't see where the public interest in naming them lies, either, though i can think of a couple of possible reasons why he did.
1. He allowed his own personal feelings of revulsion to outweigh the greater interests of the law - understandable perhaps but highly unprofessional.
2. He wanted to set an example to others - unlikely to be effective though because any other 10 year-olds probably wouldn't understand the concept.
3. Political pressure from the Home Office. Wasn't this around the time of the Tories' Tough on Crime and Back to Basics campaigns? I can see the Govt. being perfectly capable of doing something like that.

To keep it all in one post, I'm not sure that putting Thompson&Venables in an adult prison once they turned 18 is a good idea. I'm not really a fan of charging and sentencing children in the same way as an adult once they reach the age of majority. You end up with the prospect of executing people for crimes they committed as a child, when such penalties were not applicable - I believe this has happened in the US, and it's not a road I want to go down.
There's also the risk that in an adult prison their identities would have become known and they would have become targets for vengeance attacks by other inmates.
I think it would have been a good idea to have placed them in some sort of halfway house type situation, perhaps like an open prison, where they could be monitored and gradually re-introduced to society - Venables doesn't seem to have developed the ability to cope with his "freedom".
It is a very complex matter, I don't see any easy solutions one way or the other. As it stands, Thompson's rehabilitation has been successful, Venables' hasn't. I suppose it depends on whether or not you believe a 50% success rate is worth all the effort expended.



I take your point about the adult prison - that's how the courts felt at the time too. I also think the judge let his personal feelings to outweigh the interests of law. I just think that Jon Venables perhaps feels he wasn't really punished for what he did and it's haunting him.

It must be weird for him to read about himself, about how he had an easy time in detention, about how people want to kill him, and how evil they think he is. I wonder if anyone would be "rehabilitated" in those circumstances.

We don't know anything about Thompson. He obviously hasn't broken the law or the terms of his license, but we also don't know how he's coping with life. Does rehabilitation merely mean that someone doesn't actually break the law again?
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Major Starbold » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:30 pm

When out of jail on license and or other restrictions it is wise to keep ones head down, keep out of the public eye, their crime will never be forgotten.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby guest » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:30 pm

Major Starbold wrote:When out of jail on license and or other restrictions it is wise to keep ones head down, keep out of the public eye, their crime will never be forgotten.

Seems the perv is the only one not able to grasp the above.
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