David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:42 am

David Davis has been accused of running a Brexit department in a state of chaos, with 140 key posts unfilled as the UK enters the crucial second stage of negotiations with the EU, figures seen by The Independent show.

The vacancies led Labour to criticise the department as “utterly disorganised” and running an “underpowered” Brexit operation nine months on from triggering Article 50.

In total, there are 143 empty jobs, almost one in four of the posts at the Department for Exiting the European Union (DExEU), with economist, finance and project management jobs – as well as 81 policy roles – unfilled.

It comes after separate figures showed that the department is suffering from a high turnover of staff, with almost one in 10 moving on every three months – a turnover rate normally seen every 12 months in normally functioning Whitehall departments.

An astonishing 44 per cent of DExEU employees plan to leave within the next year, a civil service survey found, suggesting the recruitment crisis is set to worsen.

The picture has emerged as fears grow in Brussels that the Government’s stance on the “end state” it seeks for a final Brexit deal is a muddle, with the Cabinet only beginning to discuss its proposals this week.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 23361.html

If there are any civil servants here, and I know Canny is one, I urge you not to apply for one of these vacancies it's simply not worth the stress.

Everyone who does economic forecasting knows that the assumptions are everything, it's how realistic the assumptions are that govern how reliable the forecast will be. People trumpet how bad the forecast were following the vote to leave forgetting that the assumption was David Cameron would trigger Article 50 as soon as the result was in, that assumption wasn't thought up by the forecasters it was an assumption we were told to factor in, and the reason David Cameron did not trigger Article 50 were other forecasts that showed how things improved exponentially the more we deferred the A50 vote. That's nothing new, we spent years in the treasury telling George Osborne that an assumption of over 2% productivity increase per employee was wildly optimistic but we carried out the forecast anyway and the projection of when the deficit would reduce was always - well let's just leave it a wildly optimistic - politics isn't our job and how that unrealistic expectation coloured political messages is for you to decide.

Similarly with Brexit we are tasked with carrying out sector assessments based on assumptions that are speculative at best and even they show a high probability that things will not go at all well. More pertinent to the staff turnover is the amount of pressure applied to fudge the maths, to bring in unverified and very dubious datasets and to entirely discount known causal relationships in order to paint a better picture every time some politician has a brain fart about how good things will be when we leave the EU.

A common joke about economic forecasting concerns the difference between mathematics and economic forecasting.
Maths, the joke runs, tells us that 2 + 2 = 4, economic forecasts tell us when it will equal 3 and why it will equal 5.
In the Department for Exiting the EU you will be asked to explain HOW it will make 36.72 and if you're a person with some math skills who is up for that kind of challenge I recommend trying something easier, like proving Fermat's Last Theorem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat%27s_Last_Theorem
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Cannydc » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:10 am

The churn in that department is said to be quadruple that of the rest of the Civil Service.

My particular area is understaffed, by 15% or so, with few candidates for £30-38k jobs.

Judging by that churn, I'd prefer our mess to his, ta very much.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Viper » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:44 am

Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:59 am

Viper wrote:Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?

Doing maths isn't bias.

In most forecast scenarios, even the very optimistic ones we are required to run, the economic impact of leaving the EU for the UK will be net negative for between 20 and 50 years.

Being told that doing maths is bias, watching a person lie to a select committee claiming impact assessments have not been done when they have and the minister has simply refused to sign them off because he doesn't agree with them and then being offered twice the salary by a bank that is taking a far more realistic approach is, however, a very good reason to leave the civil service and let the lunatics run the asylum.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Cannydc » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:31 pm

Viper wrote:Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?


You don't know me from Adam.

And political bias in work is one thing, basically untenable, but my private life has nothing to do with the CS and is quite another.

I'm sure you support freedom of speech ?

ps Are you suggesting that civil servants should be disenfranchised ?
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby McAz » Fri Dec 22, 2017 12:55 pm

Viper wrote:Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?

No - where did you get that from - many civil servants are active in party politics and serve in local government.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Stooo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:30 pm

Viper wrote:Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?


Until it's a requirement.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:09 am

Stooo wrote:
Viper wrote:Arent civil servants required to show no political bias?


Until it's a requirement.

And that's the problem.

Those sector analyses were done. Every last one of them was on David Davies desk long before he appeared before that committee and even under the most ludicrously optimistic set of assumptions the softest Brexit option always out performed the Hard-Brexit option and the difference was not trivial.

Some of the Hard-Brexit options weren't at all bad, some were quite good, but all paled beside the soft Brexit outcome.

The maths tells us the softest possible Brexit is the best possible option. Given the politics involved you would want a situation where under a plausible pretext, the best one is the Irish border because we can cite security and hide everything as an executive agreement with the Stormont Executive, we harmonise EU and UK regulations to the point where the UK is more IN the EU after Brexit than it ever was before.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Cannydc » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:14 am

A very detailed Risk Assessment would have been completed long ago.

The risk analysis to all sectors affected by Brexit would have hit his desk, along with a complete set of cost benefits and penalties and a risk register.

And there it stays, because two things have become perfectly clear.

First off, those assessments will have stated in no uncertain terms that Brexit will harm the UK economy, both in the short and long term.

Secondly, it is patently obvious that any government professing the willingness to self-harm the economy in the knowledge that their actions will do so, will be blamed forevermore, both by those saying 'told you so' and by a fair proportion of Leavers who fell for the stuff put out before the referendum.

Thus those documents will never see the light of day un-redacted. The very life of the Tory party depends on it. And they are the kings of self preservation.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:59 pm

It's not just that they 'would have been' Canny they were. If you go to Government Office for the South West you can meet the man who wrote the report for the aerospace industry and impact on BAE Systems, Britten-Norman, Cobham, GKN, Hybrid Air Vehicles, Meggitt, QinetiQ, Rolls Royce and Ultra Electronics. Not only to these but also the large number of foreign owned players in the sector with manufacturing and research operations in the UK which include Boeing, Bombardier, Airbus (including its Astrium, Cassidian and Surrey Satellite Technology subsidiaries), Leonardo (including its AgustaWestland and Selex ES subsidiaries), General Electric (including its GE Aviation Systems subsidiary), Lockheed Martin, MBDA, Safran (including its Messier-Dowty and Turbomeca subsidiaries) and Thales Group (including its UK-based Thales Air Defence, Thales Avionics and Thales Optronics subsidiaries).

He will say, as he did in the report submitted to David Davies that all of these companies will have their ability to operate commercially in the UK compromised the only question is to what extent and for how long will they put up with it.
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Re: David Davis running an ‘utterly disorganised’ department

Postby Cannydc » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:12 pm

Guest wrote:It's not just that they 'would have been' Canny they were. If you go to Government Office for the South West you can meet the man who wrote the report for the aerospace industry and impact on BAE Systems, Britten-Norman, Cobham, GKN, Hybrid Air Vehicles, Meggitt, QinetiQ, Rolls Royce and Ultra Electronics. Not only to these but also the large number of foreign owned players in the sector with manufacturing and research operations in the UK which include Boeing, Bombardier, Airbus (including its Astrium, Cassidian and Surrey Satellite Technology subsidiaries), Leonardo (including its AgustaWestland and Selex ES subsidiaries), General Electric (including its GE Aviation Systems subsidiary), Lockheed Martin, MBDA, Safran (including its Messier-Dowty and Turbomeca subsidiaries) and Thales Group (including its UK-based Thales Air Defence, Thales Avionics and Thales Optronics subsidiaries).

He will say, as he did in the report submitted to David Davies that all of these companies will have their ability to operate commercially in the UK compromised the only question is to what extent and for how long will they put up with it.


I may well work quite close to the Government Office for the South West. And have worked with / been a customer of over half those companies.

While Philip Hammond was foreign secretary, and before the referendum, he oversaw a comprehensive 'balance of competences review', an extensive analysis of the UK's relationship with the EU. On the single market the review concluded that 'the GDP of both the EU and the UK are appreciably greater than they otherwise would be, thanks to economic integration through the Single Market' and that 'integration has brought… appreciable economic benefits.'

So the Tories know.

They just won't tell the rest of us how bad this is going to be.
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