Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

[Raggamuffin]

The article specifically talks about financial help for those with mental ill health to travel, but it doesn't say what mental health difficulties the woman has - the one who started the court case. I can't make a judgement about that without knowing more details. Does she get any PIP at all?

It also says that the new system provides more support for those with mental ill health than the previous one.

[Fletch]

The article specifically talks about financial help for those with mental ill health to travel, but it doesn't say what mental health difficulties the woman has - the one who started the court case. I can't make a judgement about that without knowing more details. Does she get any PIP at all?

It also says that the new system provides more support for those with mental ill health than the previous one.

Which must be why someone took it to court and won.

More support = An amendment to personal independence payment (PIP) earlier this year introduced regulations limiting the amount of support people with psychological distress could receive for making journeys.

The Tories attacks on the sick and disabled have been well documented and reported on for nigh on 8 years, as you well know. It's ok, you can call the Judge wrong and side with the far right Tories, just don't pretend you care about the plight of benefit claimants.

[Raggamuffin]

The article specifically talks about financial help for those with mental ill health to travel, but it doesn't say what mental health difficulties the woman has - the one who started the court case. I can't make a judgement about that without knowing more details. Does she get any PIP at all?

It also says that the new system provides more support for those with mental ill health than the previous one.

Which must be why someone took it to court and won.

More support = An amendment to personal independence payment (PIP) earlier this year introduced regulations limiting the amount of support people with psychological distress could receive for making journeys.

The Tories attacks on the sick and disabled have been well documented and reported on for nigh on 8 years, as you well know. It's ok, you can call the Judge wrong and side with the far right Tories, just don't pretend you care about the plight of benefit claimants.

Are they providing more support in other ways though? If you're going to get nasty, this debate is pointless.

[Fletch]

It's the truth, there for all to see. In common with others on the right, you have never agreed with people receiving benefits and now, even the disabled don't escape your ideology. You want them to account for every pound they get and if they can't, they shouldn't have it. Now that's truly nasty.

As for feigning ignorance over Tory attacks on the disabled, here's three top links from a google search. Even the UN report escaped your attention?

UN denounces British government for failing to protect disabled peoples' rights
Thursday 31 August 2017 19:17 BST

Damning report finds ministers have failed those with disabilities through catalogue of welfare policies in recent years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 23006.html

Why is the government waging a war against disabled people?
Thu 23 Nov ‘17 13.19 GMT

Ministers’ social care and welfare reforms represent a deliberately prejudiced, vicious attack on a significant minority of the population

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... led-people

The Tories have decided to 'incentivise' disabled people – by trying to cut their desperately needed benefits again
Friday 3 February 2017 12:00 GMT

If you take a moment to look beyond Brexit, you’ll discover that Theresa May’s Government is up to some extremely nasty things.

One of those is its plan to slash the amount of money available for new sick and/or disabled claimants of Employment and Support Allowance.

This ugly little policy, already the subject of considerable angst, has just been made the subject of a sharply critical report from the Work & Pensions select committee.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dis ... 60961.html

Meanwhile tax cuts for the rich and various programmes designed to line the pockets of corporations go ahead. Indefensible

[Raggamuffin]

It's the truth, there for all to see. In common with others on the right, you have never agreed with people receiving benefits and now, even the disabled don't escape your ideology. You want them to account for every pound they get and if they can't, they shouldn't have it. Now that's truly nasty.

As for feigning ignorance over Tory attacks on the disabled, here's three top links from a google search. Even the UN report escaped your attention?

UN denounces British government for failing to protect disabled peoples' rights
Thursday 31 August 2017 19:17 BST

Damning report finds ministers have failed those with disabilities through catalogue of welfare policies in recent years

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 23006.html

Why is the government waging a war against disabled people?
Thu 23 Nov ‘17 13.19 GMT

Ministers’ social care and welfare reforms represent a deliberately prejudiced, vicious attack on a significant minority of the population

https://www.theguardian.com/social-care ... led-people

The Tories have decided to 'incentivise' disabled people – by trying to cut their desperately needed benefits again
Friday 3 February 2017 12:00 GMT

If you take a moment to look beyond Brexit, you’ll discover that Theresa May’s Government is up to some extremely nasty things.

One of those is its plan to slash the amount of money available for new sick and/or disabled claimants of Employment and Support Allowance.

This ugly little policy, already the subject of considerable angst, has just been made the subject of a sharply critical report from the Work & Pensions select committee.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dis ... 60961.html

Meanwhile tax cuts for the rich and various programmes designed to line the pockets of corporations go ahead. Indefensible

I'll read them in a bit, but I want to address your first point. I've asked questions because I don't know much about the system, but I see people who seem fine and they say they're getting disability benefits, and I don't understand why. I see others who are clearly in need of much more help and they're not getting it, and I don't know why. There needs to be a shake up of the system somehow. Disabilities are not all equal, and I think there needs to be more tailoring to individual needs. It's nothing to do with "right wing" ideology, it's common sense.

[Fletch]

I'll read them in a bit, but I want to address your first point. I've asked questions because I don't know much about the system, but I see people who seem fine and they say they're getting disability benefits, and I don't understand why. I see others who are clearly in need of much more help and they're not getting it, and I don't know why. There needs to be a shake up of the system somehow. Disabilities are not all equal, and I think there needs to be more tailoring to individual needs. It's nothing to do with "right wing" ideology, it's common sense.

'People who seem fine' is the problem. The media has drummed in to the public that unless someone is missing limbs or can't walk through paralysis, 'they aren't really disabled.' It's what is at play when you see claims about people with blue badges parking in disabled bays then claiming 'they walked from the car' as if paralysis was the only life changing disability.

Disability benefits are not out of work benefits, plenty of people work and receive them, though that's not possible for all, mainly through employers reluctance to take on the extra costs of providing such people with facilities to aid them. This is then translated in the media to 'they don't want to work, can't be bothered' or 'left to waste their lives'. It's not their decision to be employed, it's companies choice and with the 'pay bare minimum' attitude such as zero hour contracts, agency working and forcing self employment on employees it's hard enough for able bodied people to find decent work, let alone disadvantaged people.

Heart problems, internal organ problems, lung problems can all lead to limited mobility. Tiring quickly, having to sleep often, visiting the loo frequently and so on all mean working would not be an environment they could cope with. Certainly not without exacerbating their condition. That's before we get to mental health issues and the limitations they cause.

Benefits are not the problem in this country, looking after the less able is the humane thing to do, not make them jump through hoops like some performing animal in front of non qualified corporate employed people with targets to meet. The sole reason for that is to reduce the number of people claiming and that means the less vocal or those without representation lose their benefits and often die or are admitted to hospital. It's scandalous but gives the middle classes someone to look down on and blame for government ineptitude. That and foreigners. It's propaganda of the vilest nature and always has been.

[Raggamuffin]

I'll read them in a bit, but I want to address your first point. I've asked questions because I don't know much about the system, but I see people who seem fine and they say they're getting disability benefits, and I don't understand why. I see others who are clearly in need of much more help and they're not getting it, and I don't know why. There needs to be a shake up of the system somehow. Disabilities are not all equal, and I think there needs to be more tailoring to individual needs. It's nothing to do with "right wing" ideology, it's common sense.

'People who seem fine' is the problem. The media has drummed in to the public that unless someone is missing limbs or can't walk through paralysis, 'they aren't really disabled.' It's what is at play when you see claims about people with blue badges parking in disabled bays then claiming 'they walked from the car' as if paralysis was the only life changing disability.

Disability benefits are not out of work benefits, plenty of people work and receive them, though that's not possible for all, mainly through employers reluctance to take on the extra costs of providing such people with facilities to aid them. This is then translated in the media to 'they don't want to work, can't be bothered' or 'left to waste their lives'. It's not their decision to be employed, it's companies choice and with the 'pay bare minimum' attitude such as zero hour contracts, agency working and forcing self employment on employees it's hard enough for able bodied people to find decent work, let alone disadvantaged people.

Heart problems, internal organ problems, lung problems can all lead to limited mobility. Tiring quickly, having to sleep often, visiting the loo frequently and so on all mean working would not be an environment they could cope with. Certainly not without exacerbating their condition. That's before we get to mental health issues and the limitations they cause.

Benefits are not the problem in this country, looking after the less able is the humane thing to do, not make them jump through hoops like some performing animal in front of non qualified corporate employed people with targets to meet. The sole reason for that is to reduce the number of people claiming and that means the less vocal or those without representation lose their benefits and often die or are admitted to hospital. It's scandalous but gives the middle classes someone to look down on and blame for government ineptitude. That and foreigners. It's propaganda of the vilest nature and always has been.

So please tell me why some people with blue badges are getting out of their cars, walking around perfectly normally, no sign of tiredness, no sign of anything wrong.

I don't think disability benefits should be viewed as some kind of compensation, they should be viewed as financial help because of extra expenses involved, but nobody seems to be able to say what these extra expenses are.

[Fletch]

I'll read them in a bit, but I want to address your first point. I've asked questions because I don't know much about the system, but I see people who seem fine and they say they're getting disability benefits, and I don't understand why. I see others who are clearly in need of much more help and they're not getting it, and I don't know why. There needs to be a shake up of the system somehow. Disabilities are not all equal, and I think there needs to be more tailoring to individual needs. It's nothing to do with "right wing" ideology, it's common sense.

'People who seem fine' is the problem. The media has drummed in to the public that unless someone is missing limbs or can't walk through paralysis, 'they aren't really disabled.' It's what is at play when you see claims about people with blue badges parking in disabled bays then claiming 'they walked from the car' as if paralysis was the only life changing disability.

Disability benefits are not out of work benefits, plenty of people work and receive them, though that's not possible for all, mainly through employers reluctance to take on the extra costs of providing such people with facilities to aid them. This is then translated in the media to 'they don't want to work, can't be bothered' or 'left to waste their lives'. It's not their decision to be employed, it's companies choice and with the 'pay bare minimum' attitude such as zero hour contracts, agency working and forcing self employment on employees it's hard enough for able bodied people to find decent work, let alone disadvantaged people.

Heart problems, internal organ problems, lung problems can all lead to limited mobility. Tiring quickly, having to sleep often, visiting the loo frequently and so on all mean working would not be an environment they could cope with. Certainly not without exacerbating their condition. That's before we get to mental health issues and the limitations they cause.

Benefits are not the problem in this country, looking after the less able is the humane thing to do, not make them jump through hoops like some performing animal in front of non qualified corporate employed people with targets to meet. The sole reason for that is to reduce the number of people claiming and that means the less vocal or those without representation lose their benefits and often die or are admitted to hospital. It's scandalous but gives the middle classes someone to look down on and blame for government ineptitude. That and foreigners. It's propaganda of the vilest nature and always has been.

So please tell me why some people with blue badges are getting out of their cars, walking around perfectly normally, no sign of tiredness, no sign of anything wrong.

I don't think disability benefits should be viewed as some kind of compensation, they should be viewed as financial help because of extra expenses involved, but nobody seems to be able to say what these extra expenses are.

You think very short term 'walking about' is an accurate analysis of a persons needs? You think people with heart problems should be made to walk from the end of the car park then back again with whatever they stopped to buy? Why?

You can also have a designated driver for blue badge holders. Why do such things bother you so much?

If benefits actually paid enough to live on, I doubt the disability benefits would be at the level they are. Why does a single pensioner get far more than a single person suffering ill health on ESA? Does the ill person, home all day, have lower cost fuel for heating and cooking? Maybe they get special cut price telephone or internet, cut price water bills and special discounted food deals. No of course they don't, they have to pay the same as everyone else, sometimes a lot higher due to key meters or not being able to do direct debit. So tell me why pension credit will make up a pensioners income to:

If you are a pensioner in the tax year 2016/2017, Pension Credit could top up your weekly income to a guaranteed minimum of: £155.60 if you are single. £237.55 if you have a spouse or partner.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=192 ... 2DYO2BQ2yM

Why should a pensioner have that top up? Why aren't you asking them to prove they need it?

Just what is your problem with providing help to the most vulnerable in society to help them live as comfortable life as possible, many of which won't be around to claim a pension in any case?

[Markey mark]

My mate has a blue badge , says he got a bad back , really he lazy, anyway he plays golf 3 times a week , when he not using his blue badge his brother will borrow it

[Fletch]

My mate has a blue badge , says he got a bad back , really he lazy, anyway he plays golf 3 times a week , when he not using his blue badge his brother will borrow it

[Raggamuffin]

I'll read them in a bit, but I want to address your first point. I've asked questions because I don't know much about the system, but I see people who seem fine and they say they're getting disability benefits, and I don't understand why. I see others who are clearly in need of much more help and they're not getting it, and I don't know why. There needs to be a shake up of the system somehow. Disabilities are not all equal, and I think there needs to be more tailoring to individual needs. It's nothing to do with "right wing" ideology, it's common sense.

'People who seem fine' is the problem. The media has drummed in to the public that unless someone is missing limbs or can't walk through paralysis, 'they aren't really disabled.' It's what is at play when you see claims about people with blue badges parking in disabled bays then claiming 'they walked from the car' as if paralysis was the only life changing disability.

Disability benefits are not out of work benefits, plenty of people work and receive them, though that's not possible for all, mainly through employers reluctance to take on the extra costs of providing such people with facilities to aid them. This is then translated in the media to 'they don't want to work, can't be bothered' or 'left to waste their lives'. It's not their decision to be employed, it's companies choice and with the 'pay bare minimum' attitude such as zero hour contracts, agency working and forcing self employment on employees it's hard enough for able bodied people to find decent work, let alone disadvantaged people.

Heart problems, internal organ problems, lung problems can all lead to limited mobility. Tiring quickly, having to sleep often, visiting the loo frequently and so on all mean working would not be an environment they could cope with. Certainly not without exacerbating their condition. That's before we get to mental health issues and the limitations they cause.

Benefits are not the problem in this country, looking after the less able is the humane thing to do, not make them jump through hoops like some performing animal in front of non qualified corporate employed people with targets to meet. The sole reason for that is to reduce the number of people claiming and that means the less vocal or those without representation lose their benefits and often die or are admitted to hospital. It's scandalous but gives the middle classes someone to look down on and blame for government ineptitude. That and foreigners. It's propaganda of the vilest nature and always has been.

So please tell me why some people with blue badges are getting out of their cars, walking around perfectly normally, no sign of tiredness, no sign of anything wrong.

I don't think disability benefits should be viewed as some kind of compensation, they should be viewed as financial help because of extra expenses involved, but nobody seems to be able to say what these extra expenses are.

You think very short term 'walking about' is an accurate analysis of a persons needs? You think people with heart problems should be made to walk from the end of the car park then back again with whatever they stopped to buy? Why?

You can also have a designated driver for blue badge holders. Why do such things bother you so much?

If benefits actually paid enough to live on, I doubt the disability benefits would be at the level they are. Why does a single pensioner get far more than a single person suffering ill health on ESA? Does the ill person, home all day, have lower cost fuel for heating and cooking? Maybe they get special cut price telephone or internet, cut price water bills and special discounted food deals. No of course they don't, they have to pay the same as everyone else, sometimes a lot higher due to key meters or not being able to do direct debit. So tell me why pension credit will make up a pensioners income to:

If you are a pensioner in the tax year 2016/2017, Pension Credit could top up your weekly income to a guaranteed minimum of: £155.60 if you are single. £237.55 if you have a spouse or partner.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=192 ... 2DYO2BQ2yM

Why should a pensioner have that top up? Why aren't you asking them to prove they need it?

Just what is your problem with providing help to the most vulnerable in society to help them live as comfortable life as possible, many of which won't be around to claim a pension in any case?

A lot of people with blue badges do walk a long way though. If there's only person getting out of the car, it's clearly not a designated driver, it's the person who actually holds the blue badge.

You appear to be agreeing that some disability benefits are not actually necessary because of the disability, you just think that anyone on benefits should get more?

A pension is different. Many of those who get a state pension have paid NI for many years, so they're entitled to the pension. If they haven't paid in enough, they get a top up, but I don't know much about that.

[Fletch]

A lot of people with blue badges do walk a long way though. If there's only person getting out of the car, it's clearly not a designated driver, it's the person who actually holds the blue badge.

You appear to be agreeing that some disability benefits are not actually necessary because of the disability, you just think that anyone on benefits should get more?

A pension is different. Many of those who get a state pension have paid NI for many years, so they're entitled to the pension. If they haven't paid in enough, they get a top up, but I don't know much about that.

How do you know they walk far?

I don't agree that some benefits are not needed. They are there to help the less able live as normal life as possible. You don't think they deserve them, I very much do.

Why do pensioners get the top up? Surely according to your world, they must prove they need the money before they get it. You can't just be giving people extra money as compensation for not paying full NI during their life...

[Raggamuffin]

A lot of people with blue badges do walk a long way though. If there's only person getting out of the car, it's clearly not a designated driver, it's the person who actually holds the blue badge.

You appear to be agreeing that some disability benefits are not actually necessary because of the disability, you just think that anyone on benefits should get more?

A pension is different. Many of those who get a state pension have paid NI for many years, so they're entitled to the pension. If they haven't paid in enough, they get a top up, but I don't know much about that.

How do you know they walk far?

I don't agree that some benefits are not needed. They are there to help the less able live as normal life as possible. You don't think they deserve them, I very much do.

Why do pensioners get the top up? Surely according to your world, they must prove they need the money before they get it. You can't just be giving people extra money as compensation for not paying full NI during their life...

I know people who have a blue badge.

Your stance then is that anyone on benefits should get more money, and pensioners should not get more than others?

[Markey mark]

My mate has a blue badge , says he got a bad back , really he lazy, anyway he plays golf 3 times a week , when he not using his blue badge his brother will borrow it

Give me £250 and you can buy you one in certain pubs , my ex brother inlaw has one for work , over the year he saves a fortune, why do you think now genuine people that have blue badges , lock their blue badge to their steering wheel with chains a lock these day

My partner caught out hundreds of her tanants claiming full disability allowance over the years , they go to her office in wheelchairs , few weeks later member of her staff then see them walking about with shopping bags ,but to get a proper prosecution the council will place spy camera outside that person house , or ask the fraud team to follow that person and film him or her


Just that I lived in a real world mate , with real people

[Fletch]

A lot of people with blue badges do walk a long way though. If there's only person getting out of the car, it's clearly not a designated driver, it's the person who actually holds the blue badge.

You appear to be agreeing that some disability benefits are not actually necessary because of the disability, you just think that anyone on benefits should get more?

A pension is different. Many of those who get a state pension have paid NI for many years, so they're entitled to the pension. If they haven't paid in enough, they get a top up, but I don't know much about that.

How do you know they walk far?

I don't agree that some benefits are not needed. They are there to help the less able live as normal life as possible. You don't think they deserve them, I very much do.

Why do pensioners get the top up? Surely according to your world, they must prove they need the money before they get it. You can't just be giving people extra money as compensation for not paying full NI during their life...

I know people who have a blue badge.

Your stance then is that anyone on benefits should get more money, and pensioners should not get more than others?

No, I'm asking why your happy to have pensioners get the top up without explaining why they need it but want disabled people to account for their extra?

Anecdotes don't equal evidence. I gave you links to articles citing evidence, including the UN condemnation of this governments treatment of the disabled after their investigation.