Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Fletch » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:08 pm

High Court rules Tories' disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’ against mental health patients

Judge rules government regulations to personal independence payment (PIP) breach human rights and 'cannot not be objectively justified'

The landmark court case, brought by a woman with mental health difficulties on Thursday, ruled that the regulations “cannot not be objectively justified”.

An amendment to personal independence payment (PIP) earlier this year introduced regulations limiting the amount of support people with psychological distress could receive for making journeys.

But the judge said the Government’s claims that mental health sufferers require less support to travel were in breach of the Human Rights Act, and amounted to no more than “subjective opinion”.

Because they were discriminatory, the judge also found that the Secretary of State did not have lawful power to make the regulations without consultation, because they went against the very purpose of what the PIP regime sought to achieve.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/ho ... 22861.html

Yet another case of the Tories ideology being exposed for what it is. Heartless, cruelty to the least able to finance tax cuts for their rich chums. :grrrrr:

'Genuine cases have nothing to fear'.

As hollow as all their other pledges to the public. :shake head:
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Raggamuffin » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:25 pm

I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:11 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Stooo » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:15 pm

Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:34 pm

Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?


Yes..but Psychological problems can't always be overcome and treated. Often the medications can cause people problems as well.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Raggamuffin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:07 am

Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Yes, but there might still be issues with getting on buses, trains, etc. If a person in a wheelchair doesn't need financial assistance with all that, or perhaps with paying for taxis, fine.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Raggamuffin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:09 am

Guest wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?


Yes..but Psychological problems can't always be overcome and treated. Often the medications can cause people problems as well.


I agree, but still an effort should be made. If a person with such problems just gets money to stay at home, they have no incentive to try to improve their problems. Medication can cause some side effects, but they can also be very effective, as can counselling.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 23, 2017 9:18 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?


Yes..but Psychological problems can't always be overcome and treated. Often the medications can cause people problems as well.


I agree, but still an effort should be made. If a person with such problems just gets money to stay at home, they have no incentive to try to improve their problems. Medication can cause some side effects, but they can also be very effective, as can counselling.


Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Raggamuffin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:33 am

Guest wrote:
Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.



In order to claim PIP, they must have been affected for three months - three months where they could have asked for help and treatment. PIP is supposed to help with extra expenses for those who have disabilities, it's not supposed to be for normal living expenses. What extra expenses would such a person have? They might also be getting ESA, so they're not going to be destitute.

With any chronic illess or condition, if it can be treated and/or controlled, is it not reasonable to expect someone to try to lessen the problem so that they don't need these benefits?
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Sat Dec 23, 2017 11:26 am

Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.



In order to claim PIP, they must have been affected for three months - three months where they could have asked for help and treatment. PIP is supposed to help with extra expenses for those who have disabilities, it's not supposed to be for normal living expenses. What extra expenses would such a person have? They might also be getting ESA, so they're not going to be destitute.

With any chronic illess or condition, if it can be treated and/or controlled, is it not reasonable to expect someone to try to lessen the problem so that they don't need these benefits?


The extra expenses would probably be taxis or mini cabs so that they can get about more as social anxieties would mean that they are unable to travel on public forms of transport.

They would have already tried treatments as to qualify for PIP they would need to show medical evidence and a history that they are in need of it.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Raggamuffin » Sat Dec 23, 2017 4:28 pm

Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.



In order to claim PIP, they must have been affected for three months - three months where they could have asked for help and treatment. PIP is supposed to help with extra expenses for those who have disabilities, it's not supposed to be for normal living expenses. What extra expenses would such a person have? They might also be getting ESA, so they're not going to be destitute.

With any chronic illess or condition, if it can be treated and/or controlled, is it not reasonable to expect someone to try to lessen the problem so that they don't need these benefits?


The extra expenses would probably be taxis or mini cabs so that they can get about more as social anxieties would mean that they are unable to travel on public forms of transport.

They would have already tried treatments as to qualify for PIP they would need to show medical evidence and a history that they are in need of it.


First bit - isn't that just compounding the problem though rather than helping it? They are being encouraged to carry on with their anxiety by getting money in order to do so.

I don't think they need to have tried treatment, they just need a diagnosis, and an indication of how severe their problem is. That's not the same as having treatment. There are also physical conditions which can be debilitating but can be eased or modified via drugs.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:12 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.



In order to claim PIP, they must have been affected for three months - three months where they could have asked for help and treatment. PIP is supposed to help with extra expenses for those who have disabilities, it's not supposed to be for normal living expenses. What extra expenses would such a person have? They might also be getting ESA, so they're not going to be destitute.

With any chronic illess or condition, if it can be treated and/or controlled, is it not reasonable to expect someone to try to lessen the problem so that they don't need these benefits?


The extra expenses would probably be taxis or mini cabs so that they can get about more as social anxieties would mean that they are unable to travel on public forms of transport.

They would have already tried treatments as to qualify for PIP they would need to show medical evidence and a history that they are in need of it.


First bit - isn't that just compounding the problem though rather than helping it? They are being encouraged to carry on with their anxiety by getting money in order to do so.

I don't think they need to have tried treatment, they just need a diagnosis, and an indication of how severe their problem is. That's not the same as having treatment. There are also physical conditions which can be debilitating but can be eased or modified via drugs.


The less worst cases would have been put into the work related esa activity group, where they would be required to undertake programs to improve their conditions.

It's only the worst cases that would get put into the esa support group, where there is very little chance of any improvement, forcing them to undertake treatments would make them more ill and then they would go on to claim pesonal independence payments after that.

The UN has ruled that it's wrong to discriminate against these people and the judges agree, so you are in a minority of uncharitable thinking there. :shake head:
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Guest » Sun Dec 24, 2017 8:16 pm

Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?




Why some people in wheelchairs even win medals at sports events.
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby guest » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:03 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
Guest wrote:
Every effort should be made if the individual feels up to it, they shouldn't be forced though and they are almost certainly going to be in the esa support group where there is no requirement to attend sessions etc anyway.



In order to claim PIP, they must have been affected for three months - three months where they could have asked for help and treatment. PIP is supposed to help with extra expenses for those who have disabilities, it's not supposed to be for normal living expenses. What extra expenses would such a person have? They might also be getting ESA, so they're not going to be destitute.

With any chronic illess or condition, if it can be treated and/or controlled, is it not reasonable to expect someone to try to lessen the problem so that they don't need these benefits?


The extra expenses would probably be taxis or mini cabs so that they can get about more as social anxieties would mean that they are unable to travel on public forms of transport.

They would have already tried treatments as to qualify for PIP they would need to show medical evidence and a history that they are in need of it.


First bit - isn't that just compounding the problem though rather than helping it? They are being encouraged to carry on with their anxiety by getting money in order to do so.

I don't think they need to have tried treatment, they just need a diagnosis, and an indication of how severe their problem is. That's not the same as having treatment. There are also physical conditions which can be debilitating but can be eased or modified via drugs.


Are you jealous of those very ill people that get support from the government.. to be able to live a half decent life financilally after they have fought for it? :off head:
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Re: Disability benefit changes ‘blatantly discriminate’

Postby Fletch » Sun Dec 24, 2017 9:35 pm

Guest wrote:
Stooo wrote:
Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:I can understand that people with mental health issue may well find it difficult to travel, but are they doing their best to overcome their issues? It's not like they're confined to a wheelchair and can't do anything about it. Psychological problems can be overcome and treated.


Being confined to a wheelchair isn't often a problem these days, they have electric powered ones that enable you to go out and lead a normal life.


Apart from the walking and stuff, obviously?


Why some people in wheelchairs even win medals at sports events.


Claiming benefits for disability is not restricted to only those unable to work.

Not surprised to see the far right disagreeing with the Courts and the UN when it comes to benefits. All the country's problems have been caused by benefit claimants after all... :roll:
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