NHS IN CRISIS

Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Snookerballs » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:54 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
I was pointing out that snookerballs claim (above) that this government had cut the NHS budget by £6 billion is a lie.
Thanks for agreeing with me.


Have you not yet noticed that this Government has cut ALL aspects of Public Sector Budgets over their term in Office with disastrous results, and worse to come.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Lady Murasaki » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:08 pm

Cannydc wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Lady M,

Because over-use of antibiotics makes them less effective against bacteria.

Bacteria can mutate to become immune to each antibiotic in turn, especially when the full course isn't taken because the patient feels better.

People ask for them for colds and flu - they have NO EFFECT, both are viral, not bacterial.


Isn't that what I was saying? Less use of antibiotics builds up our immunities because of those mutating bacteria.


Sorry, no it isn't what you were saying.

Less use of antibiotics doesn't build up our immunities.

Immunities are built up to VIRUSES, via contact with the disease itself in mild form or innoculations.

Mankind DOES NOT have immunity to BACTERIAL infections (Streptococcus etc). And humans cannot build such immunities, either by drug therapy or diet choice.

Those BACTERIA can mutate into so-called Super bugs. Part of that mutation is down to misuse of antibiotics. It renders certain antibiotics useless. Nothing to do with human immunity.


Ok. When you say misuse of antibiotics do you mean using them when unnecessary like a cough being just a cough not a chest infection? Children used to be prescribed antibiotics straight away when I was young, ( that delicious banana flavoured one.) You don't see that happen so often now.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Viper » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:19 pm

NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby McAz » Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:22 pm

Viper wrote:NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html


Not as fat as health services in other countries with better outcomes (America excepted which has worse).

Image
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Avon Barksdale » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:28 pm

According to the Bloomberg Healthcare Efficiency Index we are 21st in the world:

Image

With the top 3 being Hong Kong, Singapore and Spain.

It could be worse I guess. We could be the US who are ranked 50th!
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Fletch » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:07 pm

Viper wrote:NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html


The 8,000 NHS staff on six figure salaries

Almost 8,000 NHS hospital managers and consultants were paid six-figure salaries last year while nurses were “run ragged” because of dangerously low staffing levels.

The number of NHS staff paid more than £100,000 has increased in the past year at almost half of the 75 trusts surveyed. In some parts of England, the number of high-earners has risen by more than 50 per cent.

10:00PM BST 21 Apr 2013

:thud:
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Avon Barksdale » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:12 pm

Fletch wrote:
Viper wrote:NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html


The 8,000 NHS staff on six figure salaries

Almost 8,000 NHS hospital managers and consultants were paid six-figure salaries last year while nurses were “run ragged” because of dangerously low staffing levels.

The number of NHS staff paid more than £100,000 has increased in the past year at almost half of the 75 trusts surveyed. In some parts of England, the number of high-earners has risen by more than 50 per cent.

10:00PM BST 21 Apr 2013

:thud:


Some of them were on over £400k if I recall correctly.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Fletch » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:37 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Viper wrote:NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html


The 8,000 NHS staff on six figure salaries

Almost 8,000 NHS hospital managers and consultants were paid six-figure salaries last year while nurses were “run ragged” because of dangerously low staffing levels.

The number of NHS staff paid more than £100,000 has increased in the past year at almost half of the 75 trusts surveyed. In some parts of England, the number of high-earners has risen by more than 50 per cent.

10:00PM BST 21 Apr 2013

:thud:


Some of them were on over £400k if I recall correctly.


It's much like the schools situation with a few getting extremely rich as the debts on the school are piled on.

I understand Thames Water have done a similar thing with loading debt on the company but paying out to selected pockets.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Avon Barksdale » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:49 pm

Fletch wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
Fletch wrote:
Viper wrote:NHS became fat on public money under last labour administration that spent money whlst not saving for future generations. They then trashed the economy. However the legacy of fatness in the NHS remains...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/ ... aries.html


The 8,000 NHS staff on six figure salaries

Almost 8,000 NHS hospital managers and consultants were paid six-figure salaries last year while nurses were “run ragged” because of dangerously low staffing levels.

The number of NHS staff paid more than £100,000 has increased in the past year at almost half of the 75 trusts surveyed. In some parts of England, the number of high-earners has risen by more than 50 per cent.

10:00PM BST 21 Apr 2013

:thud:


Some of them were on over £400k if I recall correctly.


It's much like the schools situation with a few getting extremely rich as the debts on the school are piled on.

I understand Thames Water have done a similar thing with loading debt on the company but paying out to selected pockets.


Yes, I think you are right re: schools and further education (don't know about Thames Water.)

I'm not against managers earning high salaries as long as the organisation is performing well and the results (in this case improved healthcare) justify the salary. NHS trusts are highly complex with numerous demands. However it appears that some managers are raking it in when they could never command that kind of salary on the open market and are insulated from competition which could put a more suitable candidate into the role. That doesn't sound great to me.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby MungoBrush » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:53 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:According to the Bloomberg Healthcare Efficiency Index we are 21st in the world:

Image

With the top 3 being Hong Kong, Singapore and Spain.

It could be worse I guess. We could be the US who are ranked 50th!


I see we've improved by 5 spots since the Gordon Brown days
Obviously these Conservative governments are doing a better job than Labour did.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Avon Barksdale » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:01 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
I see we've improved by 5 spots since the Gordon Brown days
Obviously these Conservative governments are doing a better job than Labour did.


Just as a point of full disclosure those figure were good to 2014 (I couldn't get the up to date figures as I am not a subscriber)
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Viper » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:13 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:According to the Bloomberg Healthcare Efficiency Index we are 21st in the world:

Image

With the top 3 being Hong Kong, Singapore and Spain.

It could be worse I guess. We could be the US who are ranked 50th!


I see we've improved by 5 spots since the Gordon Brown days
Obviously these Conservative governments are doing a better job than Labour did.


Indeed. Also the direct comparison that is possible between a conservative administered NHS and a labour one due to health being a devolved welsh issue shows only conservatives can be trusted to run a health service. Factor in the strain upon the English service by immigration (far less an issue in wales) and only a partisan idiot not actually concerned with improving healthcare for all would argue against.
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby MungoBrush » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:13 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
I see we've improved by 5 spots since the Gordon Brown days
Obviously these Conservative governments are doing a better job than Labour did.


Just as a point of full disclosure those figure were good to 2014 (I couldn't get the up to date figures as I am not a subscriber)


According to this article, in 2016 we had climbed to 17th:

http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i1848
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Viper » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:16 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
I see we've improved by 5 spots since the Gordon Brown days
Obviously these Conservative governments are doing a better job than Labour did.


Just as a point of full disclosure those figure were good to 2014 (I couldn't get the up to date figures as I am not a subscriber)


According to this article, in 2016 we had climbed to 17th:

http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i1848


More conservative success stories :cuppaT:
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Re: NHS IN CRISIS

Postby Cannydc » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:57 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Lady M,

Because over-use of antibiotics makes them less effective against bacteria.

Bacteria can mutate to become immune to each antibiotic in turn, especially when the full course isn't taken because the patient feels better.

People ask for them for colds and flu - they have NO EFFECT, both are viral, not bacterial.


Isn't that what I was saying? Less use of antibiotics builds up our immunities because of those mutating bacteria.


Sorry, no it isn't what you were saying.

Less use of antibiotics doesn't build up our immunities.

Immunities are built up to VIRUSES, via contact with the disease itself in mild form or innoculations.

Mankind DOES NOT have immunity to BACTERIAL infections (Streptococcus etc). And humans cannot build such immunities, either by drug therapy or diet choice.

Those BACTERIA can mutate into so-called Super bugs. Part of that mutation is down to misuse of antibiotics. It renders certain antibiotics useless. Nothing to do with human immunity.


Ok. When you say misuse of antibiotics do you mean using them when unnecessary like a cough being just a cough not a chest infection? Children used to be prescribed antibiotics straight away when I was young, ( that delicious banana flavoured one.) You don't see that happen so often now.


Yes, exactly.

My daughter was always on the banana medicine, until grommets in both ears stopped the ear infections completely. Bacterial infections, of course.

Nowadays we should be letting kids get over coughs and colds in nature's own good time. And once they have had a cold virus, they won't get that one again. Pity there are over 200 varieties of the common cold.
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