NHS IN CRISIS

[Fletch]

Looks like Bojo broke ranks to admit the Tories are making a shambles of the NHS, then got slapped down for costing them yet more votes....

Of course, he doesn't give a hoot for the NHS, only for himself and his naked ambition to be PM.

Theresa May slaps down Boris Johnson in front of cabinet members over NHS funding demands

The Foreign Secretary was told by the Prime Minister that cabinet discussions should take place in private

Theresa May slapped down Boris Johnson in Cabinet today over a string of newspaper stories setting out how the Foreign Secretary is demanding she run the NHS.

The Prime Minister and other members of her top team were said to have made clear, as Mr Johnson listened, that policy discussions should take place behind closed doors.

After “allies” of the Foreign Secretary briefed papers that Mr Johnson wants Ms May to hand the NHS an extra £5bn in funding paid for from a so-called “Brexit dividend”, the Prime Minister dealt with the issue head-on at the weekly cabinet meeting.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 73891.html

I understand Hammond told him he was Foreign Secretary and it wasn't his place to comment but I've not seen anything from Hunt, or Hunt himself for that matter.

[Cannydc]

A record number of nursing and midwifery positions are currently being advertised by the NHS, with more than 34,000 positions currently vacant, according to the latest data.

Demand for nurses was 19 per cent higher between July and September 2017 than the same period two years ago, when NHS Digital first began collecting the data. In total, 34,260 jobs are currently available.

Across England one nurse is recruited for every seven posts advertised.

Only 34,000 short then. And of course, nothing to do with the twin edged sword of underfunding and Brexit losses.

No crisis here. Nothing to see. Move along.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/healt ... 74111.html

[Lionel Jesse]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

[Guest]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

If only we had professional private sector managers like they had in Carillion.

[Fletch]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

[Rolluplostinspace]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

[Lionel Jesse]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

Theres a lot of things we could do.... but that requires scrutinising the NHS properly, looking for the holes and plugging them properly. Not with some bluetack, like we have been doing since 1948.

Make people pay for paracetamol and stuff like that, for one. Thats £20-40million saved instantly. Thats half the budget for one medium sized hospital. Better educate people on self medicating for things like colds, migraines and others. Part of that education includes teaching people their chemist is there to help with that stuff.

We also need to bring some degree of privatisation in. Similar to the French would be our best bet. If we dont, then the NHS is gone. Its just a matter of time. Why we are so afraid of this is beyond me.... You all pay for dental, prescriptions etc.... it would be an extention of that, just with the option to pay into a private scheme to save on cost. Say £7 a month, and you can go to your doctors where as those who don't pay, are charged £20 for the visit. Those on benefits excluded from having to pay.

Something like that is a must. We dont need to go fully private like the US, but we do need to do something drastic.

[McAz]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

It is a wonder our NHS is as good at it is given the endless political interference. But it could achieve much more if it was funded to the level of our European counterparts and freed from its market ideology.

[Lionel Jesse]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

It is a wonder our NHS is as good at it is given the endless political interference. But it could achieve much more if it was funded to the level of our European counterparts and freed from its market ideology.

Do you understand how countries like Germany and France have better funded health care systems.....? Part funded by taxation, part funded by private insurance. The French for example cracked down on medical fraud a while back as it was a big problem. We prefer to pretend its not.

Even in the closest model to our NHS, its costs to visit the GP.

[McAz]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

It is a wonder our NHS is as good at it is given the endless political interference. But it could achieve much more if it was funded to the level of our European counterparts and freed from its market ideology.

Do you understand how countries like Germany and France have better funded health care systems.....? Part funded by taxation, part funded by private insurance. The French for example cracked down on medical fraud a while back as it was a big problem. We prefer to pretend its not.

Even in the closest model to our NHS, its costs to visit the GP.

That does not negate the truth of my statement.

If you can afford to pay for healthcare then go ahead - I and millions of others cannot. I therefore support free healthcare at the point of need as a right. I do not support nuclear weapons, we can use the money from that and other measures. Where there’s a will there’s a way - that’s how we created the welfare system in the first place.

[Lionel Jesse]

Underfunding....
Brexit...

Nope.

It's called mismanagement. It's not a new thing, it's certainly not recent. When my gran and then my mum were working in the NHS during the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s... All the same problems occured...

The more we ignore the real problem (we've tried chucking cash at it, didn't work) the further away from solving the issue we are.

We've chucked cash via the NHS to private pockets.

How about actually funding patient care?

It is a wonder our NHS is as good at it is given the endless political interference. But it could achieve much more if it was funded to the level of our European counterparts and freed from its market ideology.

Do you understand how countries like Germany and France have better funded health care systems.....? Part funded by taxation, part funded by private insurance. The French for example cracked down on medical fraud a while back as it was a big problem. We prefer to pretend its not.

Even in the closest model to our NHS, its costs to visit the GP.

That does not negate the truth of my statement.

If you can afford to pay for healthcare then go ahead - I and millions of others cannot. I therefore support free healthcare at the point of need as a right. I do not support nuclear weapons, we can use the money from that and other measures. Where there’s a will there’s a way - that’s how we created the welfare system in the first place.

Again, you have misunderstood, cost, which would be optional, would be very low. Think, £7 a month or something. 23p a day for those who chose to pay it. Others would be expected to pay per appointment. A very fair system used around the world. 99% of people would pay the £7.

As for nuclear weapons, it costs about £2billion per year. That might cover 3 hours work in the NHS... maybe. Its as daft as those right wing headbangers who call for ending foreign aid. The figures are so small compared to the NHS budget, that it would simply paper over a crack.... the paper being a rizla.... within a year, back to square one.

[McAz]

That does not negate the truth of my statement.

If you can afford to pay for healthcare then go ahead - I and millions of others cannot. I therefore support free healthcare at the point of need as a right. I do not support nuclear weapons, we can use the money from that and other measures. Where there’s a will there’s a way - that’s how we created the welfare system in the first place.

Again, you have misunderstood, cost, which would be optional, would be very low. Think, £7 a month or something. 23p a day for those who chose to pay it. Others would be expected to pay per appointment. A very fair system used around the world. 99% of people would pay the £7.

As for nuclear weapons, it costs about £2billion per year. That might cover 3 hours work in the NHS... maybe. Its as daft as those right wing headbangers who call for ending foreign aid. The figures are so small compared to the NHS budget, that it would simply paper over a crack.... the paper being a rizla.... within a year, back to square one.

I don’t want optional tiers of healthcare provision, I want free healthcare at the point of need. If you and others want to pay an extra 7 quid for better biscuits or something, or simply out of altruism, then fine.

Cost of renewing Trident is around £200 billion - cost of bringing healthcare spending up to OECD level (simple averaged excluding the US) less than £169 billion. Choices, choices.

[Lionel Jesse]

Where have you got the figures for renewing trident? The highest reported cost was £167billion, over 30 years. It was dismissed by the government. Even so, over the 30 year lifespan, its under £6billion a year...

We pay £120billion per year to the NHS. Over 30 years thats £3.6trillion, or 1.5 times GDP. To prvide scope for just how little we actually spend on our nuclear program, and defence in general.

There would be no tiers of healthcare either. You should really study the French, German, Swedish and other health services.

[McAz]

Where have you got the figures for renewing trident? The highest reported cost was £167billion, over 30 years. It was dismissed by the government. Even so, over the 30 year lifespan, its under £6billion a year...

We pay £120billion per year to the NHS. Over 30 years thats £3.6trillion, or 1.5 times GDP. To prvide scope for just how little we actually spend on our nuclear program, and defence in general.

There would be no tiers of healthcare either. You should really study the French, German, Swedish and other health services.

I sourced the figures from the Guardian and The King’s Fund - they suited my purpose as yours do you.

But whatever their accuracy we still have an additional £546 billion over 30 years to play with which amounts to more than a few Rizla papers.

[Lionel Jesse]

£546billion for what?