PRISONS IN CRISIS

[Cannydc]

Don't become a magistrate fo Gods sake.

I wasn't planning to, but there comes a time when people have to pull themselves up and sort out their own behaviour rather than blame someone or something else.

When it comes to committing crime, people with Psychotic disorders have been deemed unaccountable for their actions. Everything is obviously dealt with case-by-case by leading experts, as it should be.

Someone who has an anxiety or mood disorder though, will have hard job claiming that they didn't know what they were doing, and that they didn't know right from wrong at that moment.

Once again though it's all very much just a case-by-case situation.

"A report by three geriatric psychiatrists suggests mental illness, not economic need, may be what prompts some previously law-abiding elderly people to begin shoplifting late in life. In those cases, shoplifting may be a symbolic attempt to compensate for the loss of a spouse, job, health or independence"

""Children commonly shoplift. Somehow on the way to growing up, most people learn to inhibit the desire to take things. Normally that's a function of the nervous system,"

But that inhibiting function can be impaired by stress, Alzheimers disease, other mental and organic diseases[/size], even certain medications, the doctors said.

Pretty much the opposite of what you are saying.

Some people will indeed suffer impaired inhibiting function, many due to mental illness. They simply can't help it. I personally remember a VERY famous elderly woman, Lady Isobel Barnett, had up for theft. She had NO IDEA why she had done it. It certainly affects all ages.


https://www.deseretnews.com/article/895 ... FENSE.html

Pretty much the opposite of what I was addressing in my post to Ragga. How do you figure that out exactly?

Basically this - if I misunderstood your statement, I apologise. However, I can't see any ambiguity in what you stated.

[Snookerballs]

I was in prison for 4 months last year (got a 8 month sentence) - not Liverpool - and it was the most depressing time in my life. So many people in prison have mental/drugs/family problems I almost felt lucky just being "normal" in prison. I still had my family, my gf and somewhere to live when i got out.

For the first while I was there it was basically 22 hour bang up - just locked up in my cell with my cellmate (he was a foreigner who couldn't speak much English) so was just so boring with nothing to do apart from watch TV, read a few books (I'd say half of prisoners) can't even read and smoke. Even if you aren't depressed going in the way it is can make you depressed.

There aren't enough "jobs" for everybody and you have to wait your turn to get one. I got to work as a wing cleaner after a while and at least it got me out of my cell but am an electrician so could have easily done something more useful but it doesn't work like that.

There's so much shit that goes on in prisons especially with drugs and people getting into debt that causes a lot of trouble inside. Don't believe people who say it is a holiday camp because it is not but they could definitely be run better

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

[Fletch]

I was in prison for 4 months last year (got a 8 month sentence) - not Liverpool - and it was the most depressing time in my life. So many people in prison have mental/drugs/family problems I almost felt lucky just being "normal" in prison. I still had my family, my gf and somewhere to live when i got out.

For the first while I was there it was basically 22 hour bang up - just locked up in my cell with my cellmate (he was a foreigner who couldn't speak much English) so was just so boring with nothing to do apart from watch TV, read a few books (I'd say half of prisoners) can't even read and smoke. Even if you aren't depressed going in the way it is can make you depressed.

There aren't enough "jobs" for everybody and you have to wait your turn to get one. I got to work as a wing cleaner after a while and at least it got me out of my cell but am an electrician so could have easily done something more useful but it doesn't work like that.

There's so much shit that goes on in prisons especially with drugs and people getting into debt that causes a lot of trouble inside. Don't believe people who say it is a holiday camp because it is not but they could definitely be run better

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

Prisons used to produce some decent tradesman when they had a training/teaching facility in them. Chap I knew got in to trouble when young and ended up learning brick laying in one. Went on to become a brick layer/builder and managed to sort his life out. I gather nowadays it's just IT stuff if you're lucky or nothing.

Removal of ones liberty is the punishment, helping set people back on the right road helps not only them but society as with skills they are less likely to reoffend. It wasn't perfect back then but at least it gave people hope. Too costly these days I presume so private run places keep the government money give to run it and provide the very minimum they can get away with.

[Snookerballs]

I was in prison for 4 months last year (got a 8 month sentence) - not Liverpool - and it was the most depressing time in my life. So many people in prison have mental/drugs/family problems I almost felt lucky just being "normal" in prison. I still had my family, my gf and somewhere to live when i got out.

For the first while I was there it was basically 22 hour bang up - just locked up in my cell with my cellmate (he was a foreigner who couldn't speak much English) so was just so boring with nothing to do apart from watch TV, read a few books (I'd say half of prisoners) can't even read and smoke. Even if you aren't depressed going in the way it is can make you depressed.

There aren't enough "jobs" for everybody and you have to wait your turn to get one. I got to work as a wing cleaner after a while and at least it got me out of my cell but am an electrician so could have easily done something more useful but it doesn't work like that.

There's so much shit that goes on in prisons especially with drugs and people getting into debt that causes a lot of trouble inside. Don't believe people who say it is a holiday camp because it is not but they could definitely be run better

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

Prisons used to produce some decent tradesman when they had a training/teaching facility in them. Chap I knew got in to trouble when young and ended up learning brick laying in one. Went on to become a brick layer/builder and managed to sort his life out. I gather nowadays it's just IT stuff if you're lucky or nothing.

Removal of ones liberty is the punishment, helping set people back on the right road helps not only them but society as with skills they are less likely to reoffend. It wasn't perfect back then but at least it gave people hope. Too costly these days I presume so private run places keep the government money give to run it and provide the very minimum they can get away with.

A very sad situation but typical of privatisation these days

[jp761]

@cannydc

I was just stating that in a court of law people who have a 'psychotic disorder' have actually been deemed as unaccountable for their actions, 'legally insane' if you will. It's rare but it's happened. However, I highly doubt that the same thing has happened to someone that has an anxiety disorder or mood disorder. 'Psychotic disorders' are the area where someone is more likely to able to claim that they really didn't know right from wrong at a given moment.

Impaired inhibiting function is one thing, but actually being declared unaccountable for your actions in a court is another. That's why I didn't follow what you meant, when you said I was saying pretty much the opposite to that link you posted. It wasn't opposite, I was just mentioning something very specific.

[Matt25]

I'm no expert on this but just saying what I think from what i saw and having been through it.

Like I said there are people in there who definitely have mental health issues and some are pretty serious and they probably need help somewhere else but alot of others might be depressed or whatever but it's more what they are like on drugs or drunk and that's why they end up in prison. Before I got sentenced they were trying to get me to say that I had mental health issues from being n the Army. It would have been bull to go down that road. I have a brother who suffers badly from depression bad and he has never been in trouble with the police or done any crime as far as I know.

For me it was something I did when I was drunk - got into a fight and assaulted someone bad enough. It's not an excuse but that was what happened and I just had to deal with it. Wasnt the first time I'd been in trouble for assault and being drunk but it was a while since I had been in trouble. Apart from this I am a pretty normal guy - I have 2 kids, a great gf and work hard for them.

Welcome, Matt.

Wouldn't it be more useful to society if those idle, often illiterate and unskilled people were in classes, learning to read and write, learning to look after themselves (cook, clean, manage money, DIY) and even learn the basics of a trade ? I know certain 'long termers' have got as far as a degree, but it seems we are simply not prepared to invest in order to lower re-offending.

So no, there may not be as many jobs as prisoners - but a mixture of work and learn would help pass the time while producing positive outcomes from prison.

As ever, it's down to finding the cash and using it judiciously.

Totally agree with that. Just spending day after day banged up doesn't help anybody. If you are just in a local prison that's pretty much what happens. Getting transferred to a training prison you can get to do courses and work like I did. But for prisoners doing short term sentences there's not really enough time to do anything useful and then they go back to the way things were before.

Like I said I was in th Army for 5 years from 17 to 22. This will make me sound worse again but when I was 19 I got 3 months in MCTC Colchester - basically army jail. That's run very differently. It's split into D Company for those getting discharged after they serve their sentence and A Company for those going back to their units after doing their time. The ones in D Company normally have longer sentences and do training - like plumbing, carpentry and other work to help them get a job when they are discharged. I think that is a good idea. If you are soldiering on like I was you are worked hard and trained hard and there is no slacking allowed. It was much tougher than basic training and you are wrecked by the end of the day but at the end of it I came out as a better and fitter soldier. there were no TVs and the small privileges you got you hard to earn. When I told some of the boys I was in with what it was like they couldn't believe it and said they wouldn't stand for being treated like that but it did sort of work. i don't think too many soldiers went back there and when i was back on the unit I got told I was told that Colchester had done me good. I even got promoted to L/Cpl.

It is different though as we were mostly young and fit enough and not the same mix of people who are in prison. I was 19 when I got sentenced to Colchester and had my 20th birthday in there. I turned 30 when I was in prison last year - so was locked up for 2 big birthdays

[Matt25]

If you do the crime you do the time , simply don’t do the crime , personally I bring back hard labour for many prisoners, prison are there for a punishment , people seems to think we should reward prisoners and make their time in prison like a holiday camp

Don't know about hard labour but like i said before there isn't even enough work there for people like me who wanted to do it. I've worked all my life so would have been used to keeping busy. I got a job as a wing cleaner and I actually enjoyed doing it as I was out of my cell and also I'm a bit of a clean freak. One of the screws even told me I was one of the best cleaners they had.

I hate people saying prison is a holiday camp - plenty have said it to me. But if you are a normal person and end up inside it is tough. It's just a crazy place and it can get to you. There is shame for being there - I am the only person in my family to have been and my Dad was a police officer so I felt bad for them. And missing my gf and 2 boys aged 7 and 3 and thinking how much I let them down. Was so tough for me seeing them having to come visit me and see me in there and put them through that. If you have no family or just have a crazy life t probably isn't too bad but for a "normal" person it is not a good plae to be

[Matt25]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

[Cannydc]

@Matt

I know a bit about Colchester having served 23 years (albeit in the RAF) and one or two mates spent a few weeks there. You certainly knew how to make an immaculate bedpack and lay out kit after that, and you never came out less fit than when you went in.

Your description of the boredom, misery and underlying hopelessness is in complete contrast to the stories of opulent luxury fed to us by a media eager to please a particular audience who are of the opinion that Victorian filth and squalor are the answer to cure all criminal behaviour.

Thanks for sharing it.

[Holly]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

First things first...Welcome to Dogs

Now, please get yourself an avatar and perhaps you could tell us how you came across Dogs

[Lady Murasaki]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

Do you still drink and get aggressive? Or have you learnt from going inside?

[Raggamuffin]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

Do you still drink and get aggressive? Or have you learnt from going inside?

This would be my question too. I very much appreciate Matt giving us his story, and it seems fairly typical these days - got drunk and assaulted someone. The question is - if someone knows that they have a tendency to get aggressive when they're drunk, do they learn not to drink so much?

Prison is supposed to be a deterrent to a large extent - if you don't want to go to prison, don't do anything to warrant it, but there are people who end up back in prison.

[Lady Murasaki]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

Do you still drink and get aggressive? Or have you learnt from going inside?

This would be my question too. I very much appreciate Matt giving us his story, and it seems fairly typical these days - got drunk and assaulted someone. The question is - if someone knows that they have a tendency to get aggressive when they're drunk, do they learn not to drink so much?

Prison is supposed to be a deterrent to a large extent - if you don't want to go to prison, don't do anything to warrant it, but there are people who end up back in prison.

Also, if you know that you will get aggressive, as evidenced from past experience, what are the triggers for drinking? Do people like Matt learn about themselves by being inside?
I appreciate him opening up too.

[Raggamuffin]

Thanks for telling how it really is.

You appear to be saying that a large proportion of inmates have no hope of any help or coming to terms with a Prison sentence, whilst inside, so what chance have they got when they are released

No problem.

Yes. I am lucky that when I got out I went back home to my family and had somewhere to live. Alot don't. I work for my mate's company so I had my job to go back too and start earning (and paying tax!) again. If you have been in prison it is really hard to get a job and I'd say alot in prison never had a job before - some wouldn't know how to work or want to work and others just don't have any skills. I met lads there that were on their 7th or 8th sentence or worse and just don't seem to be able to hack it in the real world and end up going back. Not sure how you can help them if they don't want to be helped

Do you still drink and get aggressive? Or have you learnt from going inside?

This would be my question too. I very much appreciate Matt giving us his story, and it seems fairly typical these days - got drunk and assaulted someone. The question is - if someone knows that they have a tendency to get aggressive when they're drunk, do they learn not to drink so much?

Prison is supposed to be a deterrent to a large extent - if you don't want to go to prison, don't do anything to warrant it, but there are people who end up back in prison.

Also, if you know that you will get aggressive, as evidenced from past experience, what are the triggers for drinking? Do people like Matt learn about themselves by being inside?
I appreciate him opening up too.

Yes, although there might not be any triggers for drinking other than just wanting to go out and have a good time.

They have to think about the victim as well - being beaten up is pretty horrible and it's something which probably affects someone's life.

[Lady Murasaki]

I'm glad you're here with your sense Raggs. But people who know they get aggressive when drinking use the alcohol for courage/power. Not just for having a good time like non aggressive people. By aggressive I mean violent not just argumentative.