Stooo wrote:Guest wrote:
The LDs could go one of three ways - trundle along as they are, be squeezed out of existence as Tories and Labour become more entrenched at their extreme ends (viz the more moderate NI parties losing out to Sinn Fein and the DUP.), or re-emerge as the other two splinter in the face of internal dissension. The Tories yet again look to be in deep shite over Europe, Labour's momentum (pun intended) may have peaked too soon.
I think there's probably a major realignment on the way for you in England, but it's all up in the air just how it will pan out- none of your 3 main parties seem capable of deciding what it is they stand for, and what makes it worse for them, they don't seem to know what it is they oppose.
As the Chinese saying goes "We live in interesting times".
We've suffered from the same shit for decades. When people get polled then they agree with us and would like to implement our policies but there's an issue and it's due to personality.
Back in the 70's we just had the Liberal party which was shit and led by Thorpe. The Lib/Con government was mooted and Thorpe got all of that shit about trying to assassinate Norman Scott, from what I remember at the time the outrage was mainly fired at Thorpe because he was a homosexual. The liberals were the party of queers.
Don't get me wrong, we've had our good times, Paddy, Charlie and Nick were inspirational leaders, Tim not so much. And so we're stuck with the problem of why people don't vote LD, it's because they like our policies but feel that we don't stand a chance.
Thorpe kinda epitomised the Liberal Party at the time - too right-wing for its own more radical element, too left-wing for the more traditionalists. (Slightly off-topic, but that's been the Lib's problem since the rise of Labour in the 1920s ;a lot of policies which appeal to all sides, but also a lot which potential Tory/Labour voters think are far too close to the other side; it leaves potential voters feeling that it's pointless voting for 50% of what they want when they can vote for the 100% pure Tory/Labour candidates).
I remember the Scott affair too, but I'm not too sure Thorpe's sexuality was the main cause of outrage. The Libs, as well as being seen as wishy-washy, muesli-eating sandal-wearers etc. were certainly seen as a "bunch of poofs", but I can remember that a huge amount of disgust was directed at the "hitman" shooting Scott's Great Dane, and a lot of that rubbed off on Thorpe.
To be honest, I wonder if there is a future for the LibDems. The social matters they were so in favour of, like legalising homosexuality and same-sex marriage have been achieved, Westminster voting reform looks dead for the foreseeable future,
(though we managed it for Holyrood, so it's not impossible), Labour look like regaining the idealistic youth vote. You're even struggling in your post-1920s heartlands - the West Highlands, Na h-Eileanan an lar, Borders , West Wales, SW England, though that might be down to the lessening of the good MP irrespective of Party factor.
You're right about the leaders- the first 3 you mention had their faults, but were charismatic and well-liked, more than the Party I'd say, but Farron did a remarkable job of being simultaneously bland and controversial!!. Do you think Cable is going to be any more than an interim leader? Are there any younger MPs you can see having the potential?
The above does look like pretty grim reading for you and your fellow LDs, Stooo, but I wouldn't be too despondent about the last Election performance. It was as much about Brexit and the aftermath as it was the normal domestic issues, it'll be seen as a one-off when it's studied in the futureThe first post-Brexit election (if Brexit actually occurs) is probably going to be just as big a cluster-fuck - i think it will take at least a decade, maybe two, before the dust settles. I expect us to be independent by then, Ni and Ro Ito be in a closer, federal relationship, but not unified, leaving England and Wales to sort out your own future.
Actually, having just heard Brussels' conditions that Britain still adheres to its rules in the transition deal, I think the split in the Tories has just come much, much more likely - could well give you the chance to jump in there and seize the centre-ground.
