Jon Venables.

Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Lady Murasaki » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:40 pm

TWATkins wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:What is the best scenario you can achieve with this problem that isn't going away? I find most discussions on forums about this get too emotive and accusations of being too sympathetic come out but it is something that people need to discuss in a more measured, calm way. Because, like you said, this paedo problem isn't going away with all the laws and restrictions and vigilantism


Part of the reason the problem won't go away is, as you say, that people are generally afraid to tackle it for fear of being seen as appeasing or "sympathising" with the offenders.

Of course it should go without saying that the welfare and protection of children should always be paramount and should always come first above anything but would it not be logical to try and treat the root cause of the problem as well ?. Some of the offenders have been victims of abuse themselves and may well only require intensive treatment and psychological help to control, and even eliminate, their urges.

Good article in the independent here, especially this last paragraph ..

In 2013, Donald Finklater, of the child protection charity the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, said: "There may be some vulnerabilities that could be genetic, but normally there are some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment … I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedo ... 65956.html

Of course any treatment or programs like this should absolutely be done while the offender is in a secure facility so they are not able to harm other children.


Absolutely Jason, that's a good article.
A bullying environment does seem to have a lot to do with it, as well as with other crimes. Not being able to discuss it without a load of people condemning you for discussing it is just adding to the problem.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Trapper John » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:07 pm

guest wrote:For me it's the fact that Venables murdered a child, "rehabilitated", jailed again, "rehabilitated", jailed again.........will be released into the community again under anonymity.

Your brother, in one sense, was lucky to know his neighbour was a sex-offender from the on-set. Knowing your brother as you do, how do you think he would he have felt (hypothetically of course) if after his children had been socilaising with this neighbour then your bother found out he was a nonce and a convicted child murderer?

I feel there's a difference when you are made aware and safeguards are put in place, as your brother did. Can I ask do you think your brother would have looked at this all differently if his neighbour had had the prison record Venables has?

Also, I'm curious who told your brother initially?


Oh I think his and my sister in law's attitude would have been very much different if the bloke had been a child killer, what they could have done about it though is another matter. They were never informed officially or by the vendor, not surprising really with the latter.

This was quite some years ago now and the 'disclosure' laws about sellers informing buyers of anything untoward were a lot more lax then if applicable at all. Even today I'm not sure whether something like that would be covered by those laws anyway. :dunno:

They were told about him through the local grapevine once they had been there a short while. Apparently he had molested a young girl and concerned people thought it their duty to tell them as they had young girls, which I suppose is only natural.

He still lived there when my brother and his wife moved again, for all I know he still does and as far as I'm aware he didn't offend again. It's odd though, after a few years it was just got forgotten and none of us gave him a second thought.

I did ask my brother once if he ever spoke to the man being next door neighbours and that, he said he had nodded and said hello from time to time and my brother reciprocated but thats about all, the bloke kept himself to himself in the main and thats the way my brother and his family liked it, in the end you just kinda accept it if thats the right term, based I suppose on the fact he's not harmed you or your family.

Something I didn't say, this bloke had a wife and a couple of kids a boy and a girl, though I'm not sure if she was the wife when he committed the offence and I can't actually remember now how long before my brother moved there he'd done this crime. I remember in the early days my sister in law telling me and my partner that quite a few 'strangers' visited their house on a regular basis, she thought social workers probably.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Trapper John » Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:18 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
TWATkins wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:What is the best scenario you can achieve with this problem that isn't going away? I find most discussions on forums about this get too emotive and accusations of being too sympathetic come out but it is something that people need to discuss in a more measured, calm way. Because, like you said, this paedo problem isn't going away with all the laws and restrictions and vigilantism


Part of the reason the problem won't go away is, as you say, that people are generally afraid to tackle it for fear of being seen as appeasing or "sympathising" with the offenders.

Of course it should go without saying that the welfare and protection of children should always be paramount and should always come first above anything but would it not be logical to try and treat the root cause of the problem as well ?. Some of the offenders have been victims of abuse themselves and may well only require intensive treatment and psychological help to control, and even eliminate, their urges.

Good article in the independent here, especially this last paragraph ..

In 2013, Donald Finklater, of the child protection charity the Lucy Faithfull Foundation, said: "There may be some vulnerabilities that could be genetic, but normally there are some significant events in a person's life, a sexually abusive event, a bullying environment … I believe it is learned, and can be unlearned."


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/paedo ... 65956.html

Of course any treatment or programs like this should absolutely be done while the offender is in a secure facility so they are not able to harm other children.


Absolutely Jason, that's a good article.
A bullying environment does seem to have a lot to do with it, as well as with other crimes. Not being able to discuss it without a load of people condemning you for discussing it is just adding to the problem.


Nothing should ever be above discussion whatever it is and all points of view should be raised and listened to however unpleasant some might find it. Talking rationally about things shouldn't be seen as acceptance either.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:58 am

I agree, talking rationally about difficult subjects like this can help people understand why these things happen and hopefully go some way towards preventing them occurring as much as they do. Sweeping it under the carpet certainly isn't making it go away.
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Re:

Postby Guest » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:16 pm

Raggamuffin wrote:
It's interesting that you haven't had a load of troll guests jumping on that post. :gigglesnshit:


If Hannibal Lector was posting on forums, i'm sure that you would be his bestest mate and find a reason to defend him :yikes:
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Re: Re:

Postby Raggamuffin » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:49 pm

Guest wrote:
Raggamuffin wrote:
It's interesting that you haven't had a load of troll guests jumping on that post. :gigglesnshit:


If Hannibal Lector was posting on forums, i'm sure that you would be his bestest mate and find a reason to defend him :yikes:


Leave Hannibal alone - he was very helpful to the FBI. :snooty:
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby VelvetCat » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:16 pm

Vicks wrote:Image

The murder case involving Scotland's youngest ever murderer is back in the news after Jamie Campbell's killer was boasting about life outside prison.

Richard Keith was only eleven years old when he repeatedly beat the three year old with sticks and stones and then drowned him.

He was found guilty of Culpable Homicide and was served eight years.

Richard Keith is now 39 and unlike the killers of James Bulger, he wasn't given a new identity.

I don't imagine many people outwith Scotland have heard of the case.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5375399/Scotlands-youngest-killer-enjoys-life-outside-prison.html



I'm sad to say that I had never heard about this case Vicks, how terrible. The poor little bab even looks a little bit like James Bulger. I wonder why the killer wasn't given a new identity though, could it be because the Scottish judicial system is different to England's system? To have him living nearby and posting on social media must be almost unbearable for the family. My heart goes out to them.

About Jon Venables, it seems as if he is going to constantly reoffend. The most worrying thing to me this time is the abuse manual he was in possession of. I watched both documentaries last week about the case, and they were horrifying. It said in one of the documentaries that during the court case, the whole of James's injuries were not publicised, the ones we heard about were bad enough, so I don't want to think of how bad they must've been.

Personally, I think it would be best if Venables was sent to some sort of secure unit, he is undoubtedly a danger to children, and should be kept away from them.

As for James's mom and dad, how can you really ever get over losing a child in such a horrific way? It must haunt them night and day, especially Denise who must constantly think " what if" as must the people who stopped Venables and Thompson after they had taken James. If being in court to hear the judgement helps them, then let them carry on, I certainly wouldn't like to walk a mile in their shoes.

The injunction on Venables and Thompson should never have been lifted and the photos of the boys published, it lead to a media frenzy, especially in the Sun, whose ex editor almost seemed proud of what he had done, at the time I thought it was wrong and I still do.

Its nice to have adult debate about this subject BTW, much better than the hysteria on DS.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Major » Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:45 pm

There are weirdos out there of all sorts, nowadays kids do not play out, go to the park with their mates, the likes of Venables must be of a concern to parents.
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Snookerballs » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:26 pm

Major wrote:There are weirdos out there of all sorts, nowadays kids do not play out, go to the park with their mates, the likes of Venables must be of a concern to parents.


Yes there are still a lot of people believe in physical abuse to children .
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby Major » Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:53 pm

Snookerballs wrote:
Major wrote:There are weirdos out there of all sorts, nowadays kids do not play out, go to the park with their mates, the likes of Venables must be of a concern to parents.


Yes there are still a lot of people believe in physical abuse to children .


Shirrup TROLL, has ya squirter ran out if Viagra?????

You are one of the resident trolls I am talking about, snide git.

Has Kannairee kicked ya out????
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Re: Jon Venables.

Postby guest » Mon Feb 19, 2018 9:01 pm

I see there's reports of this piece of shit being attacked in prison. I don't give a stuff if he has been injured.

Reports of g/f visiting him in jail.................what baffles me is what kind of female associates with someone after being CAUGHT with child pornography? :dunno:
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