CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:01 am

calitom wrote:pedophiles go to where access to children is. So every church,synagogue, school, youth sports team,day care,youth music group etc etc etc etc should screen its people thoroughly.
the horror of it -beyond the horror of the crime---is that the vast majority of the people in authority--who are innocent--get tarred with the same brush. So evil not only harms the children and their families but also harms the institutions. Religion haters(not all) glom onto these incodents in order to bash entire churches.And its usually the catholic church because they are the big kid on the block.
Its a nightmare additionally because now anyone accused of pedophilia is considered guilty.

That's the dig at Catholics out of the way.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Trapper John » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:46 am

calitom wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
calitom wrote:pedophiles go to where access to children is. So every church,synagogue, school, youth sports team,day care,youth music group etc etc etc etc should screen its people thoroughly.
the horror of it -beyond the horror of the crime---is that the vast majority of the people in authority--who are innocent--get tarred with the same brush. So evil not only harms the children and their families but also harms the institutions. Religion haters(not all) glom onto these incodents in order to bash entire churches.And its usually the catholic church because they are the big kid on the block.
Its a nightmare additionally because now anyone accused of pedophilia is considered guilty.


If only it were that simple, many people join these organisations before they become paedophiles, it's not just previously abused people who become paedophiles nor are you destined to become one if you have been.


what are u talking about??? my statement is absolutely true. pedos go where they have access to kids. that is not arguable.
and where the hell did i talk about previously abused people?? i never mentioned that.


Wooooh there! keep ya Bermuda shorts on beach boy. :roll:

So everyone accused of this was already a paedophile and that was why they went into this? thats a bit of a stretch. :ooer:

I simply said that your contention being that if authorities 'screen its people thoroughly' it would somehow reduce the numbers of paedophiles with access to children was too simple.

Screening only works if there is anything to find which is why I said not everyone is a paedophile to begin with, I never said that they don't get jobs or positions simply to gain access to children, some clearly do. I don't know what the screening processes are like in the US but here they are pretty strict with a 'full criminal records check' from the CRB.

Granted you never said anything about paedophiles being victims, I was confusing that with another thread on this subject where some people believe that paedophiles have been victims themselves in earlier life.

Excuse me for getting confused, why don't ya. :roll:
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Trapper John » Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:53 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:There's no such thing as a nice guy. All guys have urges and kidding ourselves that they don't is harmful.


Thats not strictly true or even remotely. :shake head:

A nice guy will put whatever bad thoughts he has about doing things he knows are wrong, whatever they might be, into his conscience box and there they will remain forever, never seeing the light of day. :thumbsup:


Well I would say you're completely wrong in the context of this thread. The abusers referred to here are believed to be 'nice guys' who clearly haven't kept it in their conscience box.


What you said though wasn't in the context of this thread, you stated as fact that "There's no such thing as a nice guy" and that just cannot be true.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Cleopatra » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:23 am

Trapper John wrote:
calitom wrote:pedophiles go to where access to children is. So every church,synagogue, school, youth sports team,day care,youth music group etc etc etc etc should screen its people thoroughly.
the horror of it -beyond the horror of the crime---is that the vast majority of the people in authority--who are innocent--get tarred with the same brush. So evil not only harms the children and their families but also harms the institutions. Religion haters(not all) glom onto these incodents in order to bash entire churches.And its usually the catholic church because they are the big kid on the block.
Its a nightmare additionally because now anyone accused of pedophilia is considered guilty.


If only it were that simple, many people join these organisations before they become paedophiles, it's not just previously abused people who become paedophiles nor are you destined to become one if you have been.


If you talk to paedophiles (I haven't personally - well not knowingly), they would say they were born that way; that they were always attracted to children, from the first stirrings of puberty we all go through. Progressive thought, is that it is their inherent sexuality, much like heterosexuality or homosexuality. They have no choice about their sexuality but they do have a choice on whether they act on it. Many do act on it. How do we protect children from them? Unfortunately, we can't protect all kids. They will go for jobs, careers, voluntary organisations. youth clubs etc that gives them access to kids.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:51 am

Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:There's no such thing as a nice guy. All guys have urges and kidding ourselves that they don't is harmful.


Thats not strictly true or even remotely. :shake head:

A nice guy will put whatever bad thoughts he has about doing things he knows are wrong, whatever they might be, into his conscience box and there they will remain forever, never seeing the light of day. :thumbsup:


Well I would say you're completely wrong in the context of this thread. The abusers referred to here are believed to be 'nice guys' who clearly haven't kept it in their conscience box.


What you said though wasn't in the context of this thread, you stated as fact that "There's no such thing as a nice guy" and that just cannot be true.


It's in the context of this thread because I said it in this thread.
Do I have to explain everything?
People, generally, regard religious men as being nice men. But they're just men. Like other nice guys, they have urges that they don't want to admit to because it may make people uncomfortable and they are considerate about that but they still have those urges nonetheless. We need to realise that about nice guys.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Avon Barksdale » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:15 pm

Cleopatra wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
calitom wrote:pedophiles go to where access to children is. So every church,synagogue, school, youth sports team,day care,youth music group etc etc etc etc should screen its people thoroughly.
the horror of it -beyond the horror of the crime---is that the vast majority of the people in authority--who are innocent--get tarred with the same brush. So evil not only harms the children and their families but also harms the institutions. Religion haters(not all) glom onto these incodents in order to bash entire churches.And its usually the catholic church because they are the big kid on the block.
Its a nightmare additionally because now anyone accused of pedophilia is considered guilty.


If only it were that simple, many people join these organisations before they become paedophiles, it's not just previously abused people who become paedophiles nor are you destined to become one if you have been.


If you talk to paedophiles (I haven't personally - well not knowingly), they would say they were born that way; that they were always attracted to children, from the first stirrings of puberty we all go through. Progressive thought, is that it is their inherent sexuality, much like heterosexuality or homosexuality. They have no choice about their sexuality but they do have a choice on whether they act on it. Many do act on it. How do we protect children from them? Unfortunately, we can't protect all kids. They will go for jobs, careers, voluntary organisations. youth clubs etc that gives them access to kids.


If that is the case and it is an immutable orientation then rehabilitation options are going to be very limited, short of things like chemical castration, once offending has occurred unless there is overwhelming evidence that change has occurred by another means.

I don't know what can be done about paedophiles who have urges that they haven't acted upon. We can't go locking people up for having urges or thoughts but the magnitude of harm is clearly going to be high if they succumb.

What we can do though is get rid of the culture of secrecy, cover up and shame in institutions and communities in relation to child abuse so if it does occur it isn't allowed to keep happening.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:39 pm

The onus is on men here. They need to own up to their own, what we women find weird, thoughts and desires, they need to open up about how unsavoury their thoughts are, even to themselves, and try to figure out why they have these desires or acknowledge how harmful it would be to act on them. Males need to talk more honestly to each other about the harmful aspect of those thoughts.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Dean » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:49 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:The onus is on men here. They need to own up to their own, what we women find weird, thoughts and desires, they need to open up about how unsavoury their thoughts are, even to themselves, and try to figure out why they have these desires or acknowledge how harmful it would be to act on them. Males need to talk more honestly to each other about the harmful aspect of those thoughts.


What thoughts? Sexual thoughts about kids? All men are you talking about?
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:01 pm

Dean wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The onus is on men here. They need to own up to their own, what we women find weird, thoughts and desires, they need to open up about how unsavoury their thoughts are, even to themselves, and try to figure out why they have these desires or acknowledge how harmful it would be to act on them. Males need to talk more honestly to each other about the harmful aspect of those thoughts.


What thoughts? Sexual thoughts about kids? All men are you talking about?


Obviously not all men think about kids that way but the ones who have those thoughts need to be able to open up about them so that other men can guide them towards what's less harmful without judgement or condemnation. Men understand one another sexually more than women can. Men don't communicate as openly and honestly as women do and that leads to all sorts of problems.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Dean » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:22 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Dean wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The onus is on men here. They need to own up to their own, what we women find weird, thoughts and desires, they need to open up about how unsavoury their thoughts are, even to themselves, and try to figure out why they have these desires or acknowledge how harmful it would be to act on them. Males need to talk more honestly to each other about the harmful aspect of those thoughts.


What thoughts? Sexual thoughts about kids? All men are you talking about?


Obviously not all men think about kids that way but the ones who have those thoughts need to be able to open up about them so that other men can guide them towards what's less harmful without judgement or condemnation. Men understand one another sexually more than women can. Men don't communicate as openly and honestly as women do and that leads to all sorts of problems.


So it’s my fault because I didn’t let a paedo open up to me? Is that what you’re getting at? :dunno:
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Red Okktober » Mon Feb 12, 2018 1:54 pm

To become a priest, you have to be a bit of an oddball in the first place, have a certain type of wiring that leads you into such a vocation. Perhaps that unusual wiring is also responsible for the attraction towards kids rather than adult women? I can't think of any other occupation where child abuse is so common - the church just seems to attract these strangely-wired oddball men.

Then you have the choirboys as well, another bunch of oddballs. When most boys of that age are playing football and lusting after girls, to want to dress in all that weird choirboy clobber and sing in a high-pitched voice, is well dodgy.

Obviously the priests are the adults and must take full responsibility for their actions, but imo, the church, with all it's hushed reverential tones and collection of assorted oddballs, provides optimum conditions for child abuse to take place.

Then I suppose, many of the boys grow out of their choirboy phase and become relatively normal men, reflect and think 'what the fuck did I get caught up in back then?' - and the allegations come out.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Major » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:09 pm

Anyone convicted of a SERIOUS sex abuse crime (not ass pinching) should be fined, jailed, tortured, hanged or the lot IMHO.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Snookerballs » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:59 pm

Major wrote:Anyone convicted of a SERIOUS sex abuse crime (not ass pinching) should be fined, jailed, tortured, hanged or the lot IMHO.


But it is OK to beat up defenseless children, the perpetrator should be held in high esteem
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:31 pm

Dean wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Dean wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The onus is on men here. They need to own up to their own, what we women find weird, thoughts and desires, they need to open up about how unsavoury their thoughts are, even to themselves, and try to figure out why they have these desires or acknowledge how harmful it would be to act on them. Males need to talk more honestly to each other about the harmful aspect of those thoughts.


What thoughts? Sexual thoughts about kids? All men are you talking about?


Obviously not all men think about kids that way but the ones who have those thoughts need to be able to open up about them so that other men can guide them towards what's less harmful without judgement or condemnation. Men understand one another sexually more than women can. Men don't communicate as openly and honestly as women do and that leads to all sorts of problems.


So it’s my fault because I didn’t let a paedo open up to me? Is that what you’re getting at? :dunno:


Everything's your fault.
No, I'm saying there needs to be more open communication between men, not just the phwoar Pervy type. This is a male problem. Men need to care more.
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Re: CHURCH OF ENGLAND FACING HUGE NUMBER OF SEX ABUSE CASES

Postby Guest » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:38 pm

Major wrote:Anyone convicted of a SERIOUS sex abuse crime (not ass pinching) should be fined, jailed, tortured, hanged or the lot IMHO.



What about people that may have used a broken bottle/glass to injure and maim minorities that they don't like or deliberately used other underhand methods to assault and injure?

Should they be locked up and the keys thrown away, regardless of their age :dunno:

Hell yes! :off head: :hand:
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