Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Jay Jay » Sat Apr 21, 2018 7:41 pm

Cannydc wrote:NF / BNP, who became UKIP / EDL, were habitual anti-Semites. When the new race-hate crimes became a reality the vile posts, insults and insinuations from the far-right disappeared. Not because they changed their beliefs, they were just shit scared of being locked up for spreading their poison.

They needed a new target to blame for their failures, and along came the Muslims. Not a race = perfect target. They still detest Jews, just can't round up the football hooligans to scream abuse at them anymore.


UKIP have swallowed the Tories as the latter have adopted their policies. :shake head:
You only have to look at the way Jews are blamed for various revolutions including the Russian...
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sat Apr 21, 2018 8:37 pm

Labour politicians would do well to emulate Orwell’s honest introspection and contemplate the movement to which they have given their lives. Doing so means coming to terms not only with Jews and antisemitism but also capitalism and race,

Scandals provoked by accusations of antisemitism have become a recurrent feature of British politics. As the latest tumult subsides we have an opportunity to reflect on the issues that underlie these controversies and prepare the way for Labour and the left to do better in future.

One lesson of the last two weeks is that people who swear they are militant opponents of antisemitism “in all its forms” too often turn out to have friends – real friends, comrades, Facebook friends – who are happy to spread anti-Jewish slurs or imagine the basic facts of the Holocaust are up for debate. For this reason when Labour Party leaders insist there will be no place for antisemites in the party, their words don’t measure up to the problem. Too many believe they face a handful of antisemites, a bunch of interlopers. Others acknowledge the problem is more widespread but then trot out evasive phrases about “unconscious antisemitism” or vaguely suggest we educate people to recognise antisemitic tropes.

The problems go deeper than Labour leaders have been willing to admit. Even though we conventionally associate antisemitism with the right and fascism especially, the political culture of the left has long been a source of antisemitism. A more recent development is that some avowed anti-racists are seemingly unable to recognise antisemitism when it stares them in the face. They dismiss it instead as a smear perpetrated by Blairites and Zionists.

While the disciplinary reforms recommended by Shami Chakrabarti may help overcome these problems, the Labour Party requires more than denunciations and expulsions. It also needs reflection, education and, above all, leadership.

A helpful place to start is the important distinction between “antisemites” and “antisemitism”. We find it at the heart of George Orwell’s writing on the subject. In October 1948 Orwell wrote to his publisher, “I think [Jean-Paul] Sartre is a bag of wind and I’m going to give him a big boot.” It was Sartre’s Portrait of the Antisemite (better known in English as Anti-Semite and Jew) which had provoked Orwell.

Sartre’s book was organised around the idea that the “antisemite” was an identifiable type: bourgeois, reactionary, uncomfortable in the modern world. Orwell, by contrast, in his essay on “Antisemitism in Britain”, published in April 1945, presents a very different view. Antisemitism (not the antisemite), he insists, is present across all classes and is pervasive in British literary culture from Chaucer to Shakespeare to TS Eliot and Aldous Huxley. Antisemitism, Orwell proposed, is a shared problem, not a pathology confined to a particular type. He drew a striking conclusion from this insight: “the starting point for any investigation of antisemitism should not be “why does this obviously irrational belief appeal to other people?” But “why does antisemitism appeal to me?’’

Labour politicians would do well to emulate Orwell’s honest introspection and contemplate the movement to which they have given their lives. Doing so means coming to terms not only with Jews and antisemitism but also capitalism and race.

Antisemitism has been a recurrent feature of radical and socialist politics in Britain from William Cobbett to the present day. We find it in Chartism in the 1840s and in the pages of Keir Hardie’s Labour Leader, which in 1891 proclaimed that imperialist wars were being planned to suit the interests of “hook-nosed Rothschilds”. Jews were good when outcast, a long way away and suffering from Tsarist oppression. But many of the same socialists and radicals who protested against pogroms were first in line to pronounce the Boer War an expression of Jewish conspiracy.

In failing to acknowledge this inheritance, Labour leaders disavow a painful and dishonourable aspect of the movement’s past. And as events in recent weeks have shown, these problems have not died away. Across the political spectrum protagonists continue to categorise Jews as “good” and “bad”. The habit is clearly visible on the left. Here, too often, Jews find that having “the correct” view on Israel/Palestine is a precondition for getting a hearing on antisemitism, or anything else.

A key feature of modern antisemitism has been the racialised projection of “the Jew”, an archetype which stands above and in conflict with the working class. Throughout the history of the left, certain anti-capitalist visions generated by socialists have overlapped and combined with this strain of antisemitism. What makes antisemitism particularly attractive and dangerous for the left is that it can appear oppositional. It provides an easy personification of oppression in the face of less tangible, global forms of domination.

Which takes us to the mural in Tower Hamlets, the cause of so much controversy last month. When asked to clarify its message in 2012, the artist Mear One insisted the mural depicted “class and privilege”, nothing more. But it is a vision of class stained through with modern antisemitism: a critique of capitalism in which the forces of global power are rendered “Jewish”.

Everyone, including now Corbyn himself, recognises this. Yet for all the attention it received, one thing seems to have eluded almost all commentators: the mural not only depicts Jews and Jewishness, but places them in opposition to the pain and suffering of black and brown bodies.

The mural controversy illustrates the ambiguous position Jews occupy within contemporary anti-racist politics. If the left limits itself to a conception of racism which focuses solely on white privilege, it will continue to find it difficult to recognise Jews as its victims. Similarly, if European racism is understood only as a consequence of colonialism, we ignore the history of racialised exclusions within Europe itself. We need to place colonial racisms alongside antisemitism, and recognise how the two intersect and sometimes diverge.

American scholar and Pan-Africanist WEB Du Bois did just this when he came face to face with the ruins of the Warsaw Ghetto shortly after the war. It was “particularly hard for me to learn”, said Du Bois of the rubble in Warsaw, that this “was not even solely a matter of colour”. These reflections by Du Bois remind us today that colour-coded definitions of racism cannot account for the history of antisemitism.

This difficulty is deepened by the relative success of Jewish integration in contemporary Britain. Predominantly a middle-class community, lauded by the political elite and with a growing tendency to vote Conservative, British Jews appear to be poorly positioned to evoke sympathy from those anti-racists who imagine that poverty, exclusion and racism always line up neatly together.

And then there is the question of Israel/Palestine, which has poisoned the Labour Party debate on antisemitism in recent years and continues to do so today. The great majority of British Jews feel an attachment to Israel, constituted as the Jewish state. This, of course, creates a further problem for those parts of the left invested in a distinction between Jewish identity and Zionism as a political ideology

Attempts to fold Zionism into the history of European imperialism and settler-colonialism bring into sharp view the ongoing racism and injustice endured by Palestinians. At the same time, however, they obscure the fact that Zionism was in part a response to murderous racism experienced by Jews inside Europe. This tragic dynamic was captured powerfully by Hannah Arendt: “The solution to the Jewish question merely produced a new category of refugees, the Arabs, thereby increasing the number of stateless and rightless by another 700,000 to 800,000 people”. Israel today is a complex entity: while some focus solely on its democratic credentials, others point to its history of dispossession and occupation. It advertises its promotion of LGBT+ rights but remains a bastion of state-sponsored ethnic and religious privilege. Jewish statehood has generated a complicated history that sometimes makes it difficult for the left to even recognise antisemitism in Britain, let alone combat it.

Labour needs to learn and reflect on how racisms of different sorts have figured in its own past and continues to shape the present. It should be possible to decry global inequality and support justice for the Palestinians without likening Israelis to Nazis, invoking the Jews’ special conspiratorial power or holding diaspora Jews directly responsible for the actions of the Israeli state. The challenge for the Labour Party’s leadership is to oppose racism unconditionally and without exception, including when its targets are Jews, most of whom do not support the party and who identify with the state of Israel.

There is also a challenge for the Jewish community, especially its leaders. Their alertness to antisemitism in Britain should lead them to provide greater support to anti-racist campaigns more generally. It might also allow them, even as they identify with Israel, to recognise and censure the racialised inequalities within and beyond its recognised boundaries.

In their different spheres, both the Labour Party and the leaders of the Jewish community should understand that anti-racism is not divisible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long ... 06936.html
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Guest » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:04 pm

The usually shy and soft-spoken John Mann launched an extraordinary Twitter attack after being called out on certain inaccuracies in his speech at Tuesday's debate on antisemitism (which of course in no way saw him using the occasion to try and smear Jeremy Corbyn).



Mann, whose seat on the 'let's use antisemitism to undermine Corbyn' bandwagon was undoubtedly booked as soon as his name appeared on the leadership ballot, spoke about the abuse he and his family have received - including shocking rape threats to his wife and concern for the safety of his children. These things are disgraceful and unacceptable.



But he also used his speech to add his own twist to the widely recognised 'throw a dead cat on the table' technique - substituting in this case a dead bird, which was sent to his wife. For the avoidance of doubt, this is also disgraceful and unacceptable - but so is using the incident as a false example of antisemitism and how the Corbyn leadership is encouraging or enabling it....



He said, referring to his role as Chair of the APPG on antisemitism: "That is what is going on at the moment. I didn’t expect when I took on this voluntary cross-party role, for my wife to be sent by a Labour Marxist anti-Semite a dead bird through the post"

https://www.prole-star.co.uk/single-pos ... itter-Rant



Everyone is onto their smears!

Give it up you Tory scumbags :shake head:
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Jay Jay » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:12 pm

tl;dr whataboutery.

This is a thread SOLELY about Right Wing Anti-Semitism. :snooty:
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Cannydc » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:10 pm

Jay Jay wrote:tl;dr whataboutery.

This is a thread SOLELY about Right Wing Anti-Semitism. :snooty:


Which, according to answers given to a recent survey is TWICE AS PREVALENT among Tory supporters as Labour ones.

Yet, strangely, we have two or three posters utterly obsessed with attacking perceived Labour anti-Semitism. But not a word on Tory problems ?? , Odd, that.
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sun Apr 22, 2018 12:33 pm

Emily Thornberry revealed she had to tell a party supporter remarks were wrong
Shadow Foreign Secretary said the latest such incident happened to her recently
Ally of Jeremy Corbyn said she is 'fed up' with anti-Semitism not being resolved


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z5DP6bYvZg
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:04 pm

Cannydc wrote:
Jay Jay wrote:tl;dr whataboutery.

This is a thread SOLELY about Right Wing Anti-Semitism. :snooty:


Which, according to answers given to a recent survey is TWICE AS PREVALENT among Tory supporters as Labour ones.

Yet, strangely, we have two or three posters utterly obsessed with attacking perceived Labour anti-Semitism. But not a word on Tory problems ?? , Odd, that.



Twice?

https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uplo ... r-2017.pdf

Anybody with antisemitic views is problematic

What you and the other whitewasher of antisemitism seem unable to comprehend. Is that most of the recent abuse online suffered by Jews, is coming from the hard left. Since Corbyn became the Labour leader

It means we tackle all problems of antisemitism including those who are both left and right wing, but as seen the hard left on here, are in complete denial.

You emphatically showing how badly, when you say you are "Jew Blind"
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sun Apr 22, 2018 1:09 pm

Since the Palestine Live report was first published on this blog 6 weeks ago, the focus on antisemitism in the Labour Party has intensified. I am working on two related reports and continue to engage with the sewer where the antisemitism exists.

‘Labour Against the Witch Hunt’, the group set up by people like Jackie Walker and Tony Greenstein, along with ‘Jewish Voice for Labour’ are at the heart of the ‘defence’. People actively engaged in opposing all attempts to deal with antisemitism in the Labour Party.

Four days ago, the Telegraph published an article with a headline that reads ‘Jewish community lodge 1,000 official complaints against Jeremy Corbyn‘.

This was later shared in the ‘Labour Against the Witch Hunt’ Facebook Group (a few days ago, the group changed its status to ‘unofficial’). The comments under the post were so concentrated that they provide a near perfect example of how deep the problem in the party runs. I provide a full image of that post and the comments here:

Image

It is a sickening thread. Many of the threats and dangers are contained within the single thread. The threat of deselection. There is the idea that the entire antisemitism issue is part of a hidden agenda. Then the notion that the Zionists are a cancer and it is ‘time to get’ them. Of course the ‘foreign agent’ of ‘paid’ performance is referenced.

The most troubling of them all is the point made by Alan Maddison. Maddison was for a while (and may still be) a strategist for the Jewish Voice for Labour group. He is the man behind many of the distorted claims over antisemitic statistics. In this thread he is actually suggesting the entire crisis may bring about a nett gain in votes for Labour. The claim that if Labour is seen as the party taking on the ‘elite’ (the ruling Zionists), Labour’s chances may be improved rather than damaged in an election.

This is the mindset of the people behind Corbyn’s defense. The idea that between the classic Jew-hate in parts of the ‘white British’ population and the anti-Jewish racism in sections of the BAME community there will be enough power to take this party all the way to Downing Street. Attacking Jews becomes a vote winner. If that thought doesn’t scare you – little will.

http://david-collier.com/attacking-jews-labour-votes/
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Cannydc » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Keep posting diversions.

And note that you are now having to post 3 times (same drivel, same diversions) to get any sort of a response.

If I were to post so boringly repetitive garbage on this forum, I would expect a ban.

Note the thread title, and try sticking to it.

Are you ashamed that Tories are seen as being TWICE as anti-Semitic as Labour supporters ?

How do you envisage the Tory party driving out ingrained anti-Semitism ?

Why do they seem to be burying their anti-Semitic stories by attempted diversion, rather than dealing with them ?

Should heads roll, from the top down ?
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:12 pm

Cannydc wrote:Keep posting diversions.
Didge wrote:More denial


And note that you are now having to post 3 times (same drivel, same diversions) to get any sort of a response.
Didge wrote:Nothing that actually addressed my points


If I were to post so boringly repetitive garbage on this forum, I would expect a ban.
Didge wrote:Well that is what regressives are all about, trying to silence people. You seem to think I warrant a ban, then be my guest and report me and lets see what the moderators make of your delusions here. This is all the hard left can do, try to silence people critical of their poor views


Note the thread title, and try sticking to it.
Didge wrote:I am showing that antisemitism is becoming a problem, as it once was on the left. I have never denied right wing antisemitism


Are you ashamed that Tories

Didge wrote:Really twice?

https://antisemitism.uk/wp-content/uplo ... r-2017.pdf

I am shamed of any British person from the left or right who are antisemitic


How do you envisage the Tory party driving out ingrained anti-Semitism ?
Didge wrote:Through recognising there is a problem and education from the earliest ages, like with schools


Why do they seem to be burying their anti-Semitic stories by attempted diversion, rather than dealing with them ?

Should heads roll, from the top down ?


Heads should roll, starting with Corbyn that has brought about a rise in antisemitic abuse

I see you ignored all the evidence and continue to bury your head in the sand

You are in complete denial and again, that was evident when you said you were "Jew Blind"

That to me makes you as antisemitic as it gets. As you continually deny there is a problem with a number of Labour supporters

I do not deny there is a number of Tory supporters also antisemitic

Most of the abuse though these days is coming from the Hard left
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Cannydc » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Sorry, you are still on the wrong thread.

obsess

verb

preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually and to a troubling extent.
"he was obsessed with the idea of revenge"
synonyms: preoccupy, be uppermost in someone's mind, prey on someone's mind, prey on, possess, haunt, consume, plague, torment, hound, bedevil, take control of, take over, become an obsession with, have a hold on, engross, eat up, have a grip on, grip, dominate, rule, control, beset, monopolize More
be constantly talking or worrying about something.
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Stooo » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:13 pm

Cannydc wrote:Keep posting diversions.

And note that you are now having to post 3 times (same drivel, same diversions) to get any sort of a response.

If I were to post so boringly repetitive garbage on this forum, I would expect a ban.

Note the thread title, and try sticking to it.

Are you ashamed that Tories are seen as being TWICE as anti-Semitic as Labour supporters ?

How do you envisage the Tory party driving out ingrained anti-Semitism ?

Why do they seem to be burying their anti-Semitic stories by attempted diversion, rather than dealing with them ?

Should heads roll, from the top down ?


Viper's been told to earn his Roubles as it's getting near to the end of the month.

I bin most of the more obvious ones.
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Cannydc » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:16 pm

Lol good for you.

What a complete eejit he is, and ruining a fun forum with a complete load of horseshite about something he cares nothing about.

Shouting and screaming like a 2 year ild trying to get attention.

Sad.
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Didge » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:20 pm

Cannydc wrote:Sorry, you are still on the wrong thread.

obsess

verb

preoccupy or fill the mind of (someone) continually and to a troubling extent.
"he was obsessed with the idea of revenge"
synonyms: preoccupy, be uppermost in someone's mind, prey on someone's mind, prey on, possess, haunt, consume, plague, torment, hound, bedevil, take control of, take over, become an obsession with, have a hold on, engross, eat up, have a grip on, grip, dominate, rule, control, beset, monopolize More
be constantly talking or worrying about something.


lol, I am on the correct thread darling and i will continue to post to show how antisemitism is a problem on the right and left

You may not like that, but that is just typical of some Labour supporters, just like they tried to cover up child sex abuse.

I mean recently the Labour Rochdale councillor was kicked out of Labour

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... r-12351116

I guess anyone trying to bring to justice all the victims of child sex abuse, is troubling?

Maybe you can enlighten many of the victims on this in trying to find justice?
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Re: Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem

Postby Cannydc » Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:21 pm

Yadda yadda yadda.

Anti-Semitism is a right-wing problem..........
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