What have the Tories achieved

[Guest]

A BMG Research poll has found 64 per cent of voters would support bringing the railways back into public ownership, while just 19 per cent of people would oppose it.

And 56 per cent branded the privatisation of the railways a failure, with only 15 per cent of people saying it had been a success.

The poll found a major appetite for tougher sanctions against private rail firms, with 80 per cent backing the prospect of major fines and only 9 per cent opposing it.

Some 64 per cent believe the government has not properly held private firms to account over the quality of service they offer to the public, while only 20 per cent think rail companies have been reasonably scrutinised by ministers.


Another Tory FAIL. Easy to find plenty of those, but where are the actual ACHIEVEMENTS ?

I've just returned from a trip to Dublin where the railways are state run.

Used them a couple of times and their rolling stock is the same as ours, difference being that they are a lot cleaner, the tickets are very cheap, there are more trains and they always run on time....

[Guest]

Another day of bitter lefties in opposition

Why are you so quiet over the rampant Islamophobia in the Tories and why isn't the maybot dealing with this?

Are you an Islamophobe as well?

[MungoBrush]

A BMG Research poll has found 64 per cent of voters would support bringing the railways back into public ownership, while just 19 per cent of people would oppose it.

And 56 per cent branded the privatisation of the railways a failure, with only 15 per cent of people saying it had been a success.

The poll found a major appetite for tougher sanctions against private rail firms, with 80 per cent backing the prospect of major fines and only 9 per cent opposing it.

Some 64 per cent believe the government has not properly held private firms to account over the quality of service they offer to the public, while only 20 per cent think rail companies have been reasonably scrutinised by ministers.


Another Tory FAIL. Easy to find plenty of those, but where are the actual ACHIEVEMENTS ?

I've just returned from a trip to Dublin where the railways are state run.

Used them a couple of times and their rolling stock is the same as ours, difference being that they are a lot cleaner, the tickets are very cheap, there are more trains and they always run on time....

And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy.

[Guest]

A BMG Research poll has found 64 per cent of voters would support bringing the railways back into public ownership, while just 19 per cent of people would oppose it.

And 56 per cent branded the privatisation of the railways a failure, with only 15 per cent of people saying it had been a success.

The poll found a major appetite for tougher sanctions against private rail firms, with 80 per cent backing the prospect of major fines and only 9 per cent opposing it.

Some 64 per cent believe the government has not properly held private firms to account over the quality of service they offer to the public, while only 20 per cent think rail companies have been reasonably scrutinised by ministers.


Another Tory FAIL. Easy to find plenty of those, but where are the actual ACHIEVEMENTS ?

I've just returned from a trip to Dublin where the railways are state run.

Used them a couple of times and their rolling stock is the same as ours, difference being that they are a lot cleaner, the tickets are very cheap, there are more trains and they always run on time....

And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy.

So?

I wouldn't trust your figures at all, but don't have a problem with increased subsidies to our railways.

Increase corporation tax and make the rich pay their fair share. Their day is coming and the poor won't be made to suffer any more.

[Guest]

[Guest]

Waking to another day without a lolbour government and labour tanking in the polls.

B-e-a-utiful

[MungoBrush]

And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy.

So?

I wouldn't trust your figures at all, but don't have a problem with increased subsidies to our railways.

Increase corporation tax and make the rich pay their fair share. Their day is coming and the poor won't be made to suffer any more.

So which budget would you raid to get the extra £30 billion for your rail subsidies from?
Police?
Roads?
NHS?

[Fletch]

And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy.

So?

I wouldn't trust your figures at all, but don't have a problem with increased subsidies to our railways.

Increase corporation tax and make the rich pay their fair share. Their day is coming and the poor won't be made to suffer any more.

So which budget would you raid to get the extra £30 billion for your rail subsidies from?
Police?
Roads?
NHS?

Are governments on a fixed income then?

[Cannydc]

"And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy."

Completely false premise.

First off, there are vast economies of scale within the UK rail network that doesn't exist in Ireland.

Second, the rail companies make profits which are returned, not to the Treasury, but actually to SHAREHOLDERS. The top five recipients of public subsidy alone received almost £3bn in taxpayer support between 2007 and 2011. This allowed them to make operating profits of £504m – over 90 per cent (£466m) of which was paid to shareholders. A nationalised railway would be NOT FOR PROFIT, allowing these returns to offset subsidies.

Third, it is ludicrous to suggest that subsidies would need to be 8x those currently put in. There are simply no justifications for such actions. Scaremongering - the Tory way, of course.

[MungoBrush]

"And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy."

Completely false premise.

First off, there are vast economies of scale within the UK rail network that doesn't exist in Ireland.

Second, the rail companies make profits which are returned, not to the Treasury, but actually to SHAREHOLDERS. The top five recipients of public subsidy alone received almost £3bn in taxpayer support between 2007 and 2011. This allowed them to make operating profits of £504m – over 90 per cent (£466m) of which was paid to shareholders. A nationalised railway would be NOT FOR PROFIT, allowing these returns to offset subsidies.

Third, it is ludicrous to suggest that subsidies would need to be 8x those currently put in. There are simply no justifications for such actions. Scaremongering - the Tory way, of course.

The reason that rail fares are lower in some countries than other is because fares are subsidised by taxpayers
In the UK, rail operating costs are lower than the EU average.
If you want lower fares, someone else has to pay

Are you proposing to raise taxes so that rail fares can be further subsidised?

[Cannydc]

"And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy."

Completely false premise.

First off, there are vast economies of scale within the UK rail network that doesn't exist in Ireland.

Second, the rail companies make profits which are returned, not to the Treasury, but actually to SHAREHOLDERS. The top five recipients of public subsidy alone received almost £3bn in taxpayer support between 2007 and 2011. This allowed them to make operating profits of £504m – over 90 per cent (£466m) of which was paid to shareholders. A nationalised railway would be NOT FOR PROFIT, allowing these returns to offset subsidies.

Third, it is ludicrous to suggest that subsidies would need to be 8x those currently put in. There are simply no justifications for such actions. Scaremongering - the Tory way, of course.

The reason that rail fares are lower in some countries than other is because fares are subsidised by taxpayers
In the UK, rail operating costs are lower than the EU average.
If you want lower fares, someone else has to pay

Are you proposing to raise taxes so that rail fares can be further subsidised?

You have ignored the economies of scale, which would be much greater in a single rail organisation, and the return of profits to the treasury.

Why ?

[MungoBrush]

"And Irish railways receive 8 times the subsidies that UK railways receive.
UK subsidies total 4.4 billion euros
They would have to increase to 34.8 billion to match the Irish level of subsidy."

Completely false premise.

First off, there are vast economies of scale within the UK rail network that doesn't exist in Ireland.

Second, the rail companies make profits which are returned, not to the Treasury, but actually to SHAREHOLDERS. The top five recipients of public subsidy alone received almost £3bn in taxpayer support between 2007 and 2011. This allowed them to make operating profits of £504m – over 90 per cent (£466m) of which was paid to shareholders. A nationalised railway would be NOT FOR PROFIT, allowing these returns to offset subsidies.

Third, it is ludicrous to suggest that subsidies would need to be 8x those currently put in. There are simply no justifications for such actions. Scaremongering - the Tory way, of course.

The reason that rail fares are lower in some countries than other is because fares are subsidised by taxpayers
In the UK, rail operating costs are lower than the EU average.
If you want lower fares, someone else has to pay

Are you proposing to raise taxes so that rail fares can be further subsidised?

You have ignored the economies of scale, which would be much greater in a single rail organisation, and the return of profits to the treasury.

Why ?

Of course.
And the old British Rail always made profits didn't they

"Despite its nationalisation in 1947 "as one of the 'commanding heights' of the economy",[34] according to some sources British Rail was not profitable for most (if not all)[35] of its history.[36] Newspapers reported that as recently as the 1990s, public rail subsidy was counted as profit;[37] as early as 1961, British Railways were losing £300,000 a day.[38]"

[Cannydc]

Still ignoring the obvious.

So many back office staff duplicated. Computer systems duplicated. The list is long and costly...

And you are comparing apples with oranges, if you are trying to match the old BR with a new, hi-tech nationalised industry. Things have moved on a bit since the 1990s - for instance they have properly connected, fast operating computers these days.

[MungoBrush]

Still ignoring the obvious.

So many back office staff duplicated. Computer systems duplicated. The list is long and costly...

And you are comparing apples with oranges, if you are trying to match the old BR with a new, hi-tech nationalised industry. Things have moved on a bit since the 1990s - for instance they have properly connected, fast operating computers these days.

What is obvious is that governments are hopeless at running enterprises

British Road Services
BOAC
BEA
Milk Marketing Board
National Coal Board

etc etc

How many examples of failed government enterprises would you like?

[Cannydc]

Still ignoring the obvious.

So many back office staff duplicated. Computer systems duplicated. The list is long and costly...

And you are comparing apples with oranges, if you are trying to match the old BR with a new, hi-tech nationalised industry. Things have moved on a bit since the 1990s - for instance they have properly connected, fast operating computers these days.

What is obvious is that governments are hopeless at running enterprises

British Road Services
BOAC
BEA
Milk Marketing Board
National Coal Board

etc etc

How many examples of failed government enterprises would you like?

Hahaha love it.

Remind us how Dairy farmers are doing these days.

There are now fewer than 9,500 dairy farms in the UK compared with 13,000 10 years ago, and it has been predicted there will be fewer than 5,000 by 2025. Low milk prices threaten the livelihoods of dairy farming families and, with it, the rural communities of which they are apart.

How many coal mines are open.

The last deep coal mine in the UK closed on 18 December 2015. In 2016, 77% of supplies were imported from Colombia, Russia and the USA.

How British Airways are faring.

First, unlike most other national airlines, you no longer get complimentary drinks or snacks in economy. Instead, in a rather gimmicky fashion you can now purchase only Marks & Spencer’s food. A fleeting attempt to cling onto its middle-class reputation as it dwindles into a low-cost airline.
Next, you have to pay at least £13 to reserve a seat. In true budget-airline style, seats at the back are cheaper — except on the likes of Ryanair they cost £11 less. If you want to sit in the front of the plane you could find yourself paying double.
Most recently comes the announcement that some short-haul flights, bearing in mind that this includes trips to North Africa, will no longer offer reclining seats.
As somewhat of an icing on the cake, it was reported that BA are planning to fly passengers with different carriers from Gatwick.

Finally, via privatisation, the old BRS (later National Freight Corporation) is German owned (Exel plc).