Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby guest » Mon May 07, 2018 11:40 pm

Paul Mason may have something here. What do we think?

Theresa May can let tower blocks burn, deport black British pensioners to Jamaica, make an almighty cock-up of the Brexit negotiations, and 35 per cent of the English public will still, happily vote for her.

Corbyn can be smeared by the right wing press as a Czech spy, a Russian stooge an IRA sympathiser or a closet anti-semite – but it makes little difference: a solid 35 per cent-plus of the electorate wants a left wing Labour government and understands that much of the tabloid media is peddling lies or distortions.

Between now and the general election, the Brexit process will either collapse or be concluded. The electorate that votes for the next parliament will know whether Theresa May’s giant bluff – refusing to say what form of exit Britain wants, in the hope that Europe will hand something to her on a plate – has worked or not.

I doubt it will work. Instead it looks likely that parliament – via the Commons and the Lords – will instruct May to seek a deal keeping Britain inside the customs union. Then, either May’s government would then fall, or we’d see civil war inside the cabinet. As a Labour supporter, for me that can’t come soon enough.

To win the next election decisively, Labour needs to win exactly in areas where the Ukip vote has shifted to the Conservatives: places like Walsall, Nuneaton and Derby. Such areas are often described as “pro-Brexit” areas – but it’s more complicated than that.

In left-behind, de-industrialised areas, Brexit was simply an expression of wider social attitudes: unsettled by high inward migration, turned-off by the cosmopolitan lifestyle of big cities, apt to call middle class people “luvvies” – as the Sun does every day – proud of their industrial past and determinedly patriotic.

Labour must offer the left-behind communities of Britain a comprehensive plan for economic revival. It must say: life in the 21st century will be cosmopolitan, hi-tech, global and socially liberal and we will plug your community into that life, through education, training and inward investment.


https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/05/ ... mmunities/


:awesome:
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Gigabit » Tue May 08, 2018 12:31 am

I don't know what the future holds but what I do know is that the Tories don't deserve to be elected ever again. Their policies are not fit for the Britain of today and do nothing for social and societal progress. Those on the left have always been the underdogs. We've been trampled on, abused, made fun of, forever. But eventually, we win. Every time.

Change will come. Neoliberalism will die. And the UK will become a better society and country for it. I pray it is during my lifetime.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Guest » Tue May 08, 2018 7:04 am

Gigabit wrote:I don't know what the future holds but what I do know is that the Tories don't deserve to be elected ever again. Their policies are not fit for the Britain of today and do nothing for social and societal progress. Those on the left have always been the underdogs. We've been trampled on, abused, made fun of, forever. But eventually, we win. Every time.

Change will come. Neoliberalism will die. And the UK will become a better society and country for it. I pray it is during my lifetime.


They scrapped their manifesto the day after the election and a few policies in it, before polling day.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Si_Crewe » Tue May 08, 2018 12:00 pm

I suspect that whoever wins the election in 2020 will be completely unelectable in 2024.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Cannydc » Tue May 08, 2018 12:41 pm

Si_Crewe wrote:I suspect that whoever wins the election in 2020 will be completely unelectable in 2024.


A very interesting post, if a little lacking in detail...

Timing will be all. The Brexit negotiations outcome. The Commons reaction. The decisions thereafter. And finally, crucially, the economic outcome.

At which stage would Labour like to step in ? Although they publicly state otherwise, my thoughts are that they want the Tories to implode but not before the fallout of the above is obvious. If Treeza truly owns Brexit and the complete shambles of the negotiations, they really will be gone for 20 years, if not forever.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Si_Crewe » Tue May 08, 2018 1:02 pm

Cannydc wrote:
Si_Crewe wrote:I suspect that whoever wins the election in 2020 will be completely unelectable in 2024.


A very interesting post, if a little lacking in detail...

Timing will be all. The Brexit negotiations outcome. The Commons reaction. The decisions thereafter. And finally, crucially, the economic outcome.

At which stage would Labour like to step in ? Although they publicly state otherwise, my thoughts are that they want the Tories to implode but not before the fallout of the above is obvious. If Treeza truly owns Brexit and the complete shambles of the negotiations, they really will be gone for 20 years, if not forever.


Thing is, by the time Brexit comes around we'll have had a tory government for almost a decade.
If they have any brains, they'll have something "up their sleeve" to keep the electorate happy in the 2020 GE.
If that happens, we get another 4 years of the tories and they'll have 4 years to hope they can sort out any problems - or hope something else happens to distract the public.

Honestly, I don't think they're that smart though.

I think Brexit will happen, there'll be a bunch of stuff people are unhappy about and then - maybe - Labour will get in.
Trouble is, if that happens it probably means the situation is such a clusterfuck that Labour aren't going to be able to sort it out in 4 years and they'll end up looking like a shower of shit regardless of whether it's their fault or not.

If I was in charge of the Labour party, I'd seriously consider running the 2020 GE on a manifesto of "Vote for the tories. They organised all this so let them see it through and then give us a call in 2024 if you're not happy". :ooer:
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Tue May 08, 2018 1:07 pm

And meanwhile while everyones fucking about the NHS will have gone completely.
Once it's gone it will never be coming back.
Brexit is giving lots of people the time and excuses to do fuck all about the important stuff whilst chucking rocks at each other.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Cannydc » Tue May 08, 2018 2:10 pm

Si_Crewe wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
Si_Crewe wrote:I suspect that whoever wins the election in 2020 will be completely unelectable in 2024.


A very interesting post, if a little lacking in detail...

Timing will be all. The Brexit negotiations outcome. The Commons reaction. The decisions thereafter. And finally, crucially, the economic outcome.

At which stage would Labour like to step in ? Although they publicly state otherwise, my thoughts are that they want the Tories to implode but not before the fallout of the above is obvious. If Treeza truly owns Brexit and the complete shambles of the negotiations, they really will be gone for 20 years, if not forever.


Thing is, by the time Brexit comes around we'll have had a tory government for almost a decade.
If they have any brains, they'll have something "up their sleeve" to keep the electorate happy in the 2020 GE.
If that happens, we get another 4 years of the tories and they'll have 4 years to hope they can sort out any problems - or hope something else happens to distract the public.

Honestly, I don't think they're that smart though.

I think Brexit will happen, there'll be a bunch of stuff people are unhappy about and then - maybe - Labour will get in.
Trouble is, if that happens it probably means the situation is such a clusterfuck that Labour aren't going to be able to sort it out in 4 years and they'll end up looking like a shower of shit regardless of whether it's their fault or not.

If I was in charge of the Labour party, I'd seriously consider running the 2020 GE on a manifesto of "Vote for the tories. They organised all this so let them see it through and then give us a call in 2024 if you're not happy". :ooer:


I get the distinct impression that the last election was an 'expected win' for Treeza. With that in mind, the usual Tory giveaway was held off - and the idea is to continue austerity to build up a war chest for the next one.

This is only a theory, but it also explains why, no matter how many cock-ups and u-turns she is responsible for, she remains in power as do the Tories.

My guess is that they will hang on grimly for as long as possible, only to smash out a huge bribefest in 2024. They will call it a 'reward to the British people'.

And the British people will fall for it. Again.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Cannydc » Tue May 08, 2018 2:23 pm

"None of the advertised benefits of leaving the EU will materialise. Leavers will experience total victory in the political battle over EU membership, but without equivalent advances in the culture war. May’s deal will not accelerate reconciliation between a younger, liberal generation that feels its future has just been vandalised by its angry elders.

The remainer tribe isn’t going to renounce its metropolitan mores just because the cause of remaining in the EU is lost. And the leaver tribe, upon leaving, will cling to grievances that were channeled against Brussels but not caused there. Neither side will cherish May’s messy deal and, because it will be unloved in the country, few MPs will have much incentive to defend it.

There may be no shortage of will to deliver Britain out of the EU now, but in time there will be a great washing of hands and collective denial of responsibility for the deed. Brexit is the adopted child of a whole generation of politicians. It will be an orphan one day."

Rafael Behr
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Guest » Tue May 08, 2018 2:37 pm

Cannydc wrote:
Si_Crewe wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
Si_Crewe wrote:I suspect that whoever wins the election in 2020 will be completely unelectable in 2024.


A very interesting post, if a little lacking in detail...

Timing will be all. The Brexit negotiations outcome. The Commons reaction. The decisions thereafter. And finally, crucially, the economic outcome.

At which stage would Labour like to step in ? Although they publicly state otherwise, my thoughts are that they want the Tories to implode but not before the fallout of the above is obvious. If Treeza truly owns Brexit and the complete shambles of the negotiations, they really will be gone for 20 years, if not forever.


Thing is, by the time Brexit comes around we'll have had a tory government for almost a decade.
If they have any brains, they'll have something "up their sleeve" to keep the electorate happy in the 2020 GE.
If that happens, we get another 4 years of the tories and they'll have 4 years to hope they can sort out any problems - or hope something else happens to distract the public.

Honestly, I don't think they're that smart though.

I think Brexit will happen, there'll be a bunch of stuff people are unhappy about and then - maybe - Labour will get in.
Trouble is, if that happens it probably means the situation is such a clusterfuck that Labour aren't going to be able to sort it out in 4 years and they'll end up looking like a shower of shit regardless of whether it's their fault or not.

If I was in charge of the Labour party, I'd seriously consider running the 2020 GE on a manifesto of "Vote for the tories. They organised all this so let them see it through and then give us a call in 2024 if you're not happy". :ooer:


I get the distinct impression that the last election was an 'expected win' for Treeza. With that in mind, the usual Tory giveaway was held off - and the idea is to continue austerity to build up a war chest for the next one.

This is only a theory, but it also explains why, no matter how many cock-ups and u-turns she is responsible for, she remains in power as do the Tories.

My guess is that they will hang on grimly for as long as possible, only to smash out a huge bribefest in 2024. They will call it a 'reward to the British people'.

And the British people will fall for it. Again.


Hmm interesting post..

You concede tories will win next election, so why are you not screaming for leadership change in labour party.

You describe your utter disdain and lack of trust in british electorate. Why would anyone listen to you and your ilk if you hold gbp in such contempt.

At least point 2 explains why point one is a given.

:cuppaT:
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Cannydc » Tue May 08, 2018 2:49 pm

Oh look - 2 + 2 = 5, says 'Guest'......

It's a HYPOTHETIC look at what MIGHT happen.

It neither concedes, nor explains anything.

Your post simply adds to the 'try to talk down the lefties at all costs' attitude being emitted from Tory HQ, via their media outlets.

If you have anything sensible to add to the conversation, let us know. I can wait.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Si_Crewe » Tue May 08, 2018 3:40 pm

Cannydc wrote:I get the distinct impression that the last election was an 'expected win' for Treeza. With that in mind, the usual Tory giveaway was held off - and the idea is to continue austerity to build up a war chest for the next one.

This is only a theory, but it also explains why, no matter how many cock-ups and u-turns she is responsible for, she remains in power as do the Tories.

My guess is that they will hang on grimly for as long as possible, only to smash out a huge bribefest in 2024. They will call it a 'reward to the British people'.

And the British people will fall for it. Again.


It never ceases to amaze me how people overestimate politicians.

If this was an episode of "Game of Thrones" or "The West Wing" you might expect the protagonist to have some kind of "ace up their sleeve" in order to save the day.
In reality, though, most pol's seem unable to look beyond securing enough votes to remain in their job, getting their house in London refurbished and ensuring that their expenses cheques get deposited in the bank.

Doesn't really matter if you're talking about tory MPs ensuring that defence contracts go to companies they've got shares in or Labour MPs buying up land and property that councils are selling at a knock-down price.
The vast majority of them are just greedy tossers.

I'd actually be impressed if the tories DID have some kind of "bribe" for the population come the next election.
At least that'd mean they are capable of planning something.

Honestly, I think the tories are more surprised than anybody to still be in power and I wouldn't be surprised if they're actively hoping to lose the next GE.
Trouble is, if Labour had any brains they probably shouldn't want to win it either. :shake head:
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Cannydc » Tue May 08, 2018 3:46 pm

Si_Crewe wrote:
Cannydc wrote:I get the distinct impression that the last election was an 'expected win' for Treeza. With that in mind, the usual Tory giveaway was held off - and the idea is to continue austerity to build up a war chest for the next one.

This is only a theory, but it also explains why, no matter how many cock-ups and u-turns she is responsible for, she remains in power as do the Tories.

My guess is that they will hang on grimly for as long as possible, only to smash out a huge bribefest in 2024. They will call it a 'reward to the British people'.

And the British people will fall for it. Again.


It never ceases to amaze me how people overestimate politicians.

If this was an episode of "Game of Thrones" or "The West Wing" you might expect the protagonist to have some kind of "ace up their sleeve" in order to save the day.
In reality, though, most pol's seem unable to look beyond securing enough votes to remain in their job, getting their house in London refurbished and ensuring that their expenses cheques get deposited in the bank.

Doesn't really matter if you're talking about tory MPs ensuring that defence contracts go to companies they've got shares in or Labour MPs buying up land and property that councils are selling at a knock-down price.
The vast majority of them are just greedy tossers.

I'd actually be impressed if the tories DID have some kind of "bribe" for the population come the next election.
At least that'd mean they are capable of planning something.

Honestly, I think the tories are more surprised than anybody to still be in power and I wouldn't be surprised if they're actively hoping to lose the next GE.
Trouble is, if Labour had any brains they probably shouldn't want to win it either. :shake head:


Those of us around and interested in politics in the 1980s well remember the bribes and the resulting 'boom and bust' Tory tactics come each election.

Old habits die hard.
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Si_Crewe » Tue May 08, 2018 3:54 pm

Cannydc wrote:Those of us around and interested in politics in the 1980s well remember the bribes and the resulting 'boom and bust' Tory tactics come each election.

Old habits die hard.


If they do have the means to arrange something like that I guess it puts them ahead of Labour, who could famously only manage to leave a letter saying "I'm afraid there's no money left".
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Re: Labour’s victory will arise from the humiliating end of Tory

Postby Guest » Tue May 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Si_Crewe wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Those of us around and interested in politics in the 1980s well remember the bribes and the resulting 'boom and bust' Tory tactics come each election.

Old habits die hard.


If they do have the means to arrange something like that I guess it puts them ahead of Labour, who could famously only manage to leave a letter saying "I'm afraid there's no money left".


:off head: All outgoing treasury ministers traditionally do that.
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