Scottish parliament decisively rejects EU withdrawal bill

[Ray of Sunshine]

That economic growth is certainly not all due to the EU though.

Ireland's low corporation taxes which attracted big corporations like Apple have been a big boost to the economy, which the EU has actually attacked and brought legal action against them over, so it may be they would do even better outside of the EU.

My point was not over the economy though but about how globalisation has changed Ireland's culture and character (the Catholic Church paedophile scandal also had a lot to do with this as well admittedly).

[Guest]

That economic growth is certainly not all due to the EU though.

Ireland's low corporation taxes which attracted big corporations like Apple have been a big boost to the economy, which the EU has actually attacked and brought legal action against them over, so it may be they would do even better outside of the EU.

My point was not over the economy though but about how globalisation has changed Ireland's culture and character (the Catholic Church paedophile scandal also had a lot to do with this as well admittedly).

Yeah those fucking Muslims child rapists in the Catholic Church need outing.

[Guest]

If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

It's a bit like the Tories down South saying we must all support Celtic then going to Scotland and saying hey you guys must all support Rangers

[Ray of Sunshine]

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

No they don't, have you actually seen the news at all during the past 2 years?

Most of the Conservative parliamentary party are Remainers, in 2016 the Tory PM and chancellor campaigned for Remain, the current Tory PM and chancellor backed Remain.

Working-class Labour voters are actually the most enthusiastic Leavers, having been most affected by the EU expansion of 2004 and subsequent mass immigration from Central and Eastern Europe.

[Cannydc]

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

No they don't, have you actually seen the news at all during the past 2 years?

Most of the Conservative parliamentary party are Remainers, in 2016 the Tory PM and chancellor campaigned for Remain, the current Tory PM and chancellor backed Remain.

Working-class Labour voters are actually the most enthusiastic Leavers, having been most affected by the EU expansion of 2004 and subsequent mass immigration from Central and Eastern Europe.

Just out of interest, do you have an alter-ego by the name of Ragamuffin ?

[Claire]

If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

It's a bit like the Tories down South saying we must all support Celtic then going to Scotland and saying hey you guys must all support Rangers

[Si_Crewe]

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

It's a bit like the Tories down South saying we must all support Celtic then going to Scotland and saying hey you guys must all support Rangers

I guess.

My point is, if a jock wants to go "full braveheart" and for Scotland to become an independent nation I can sympathise with that opinion but surely that should mean leaving the Uk and leaving the EU in order to be, y'know..... independent?

Conversely, if a jock wants to remain part of the EU in order to take advantage of the economic opportunities it provides I can understand that too but it should also mean wanting to remain part of the UK for all the same reasons.
I mean, seriously, if we consider Scotland as an independent economic entity, who's their biggest trading partner? France? Italy? Spain? Or, is it... England?
http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Statistics/B ... ublication

The current "independence from the UK but membership of the EU" thing is positively fucking schizophrenic.
The only explanation I can think of is that some jocks really, really despise the English so they're desperate for independence but they're okay with the idea of being governed by Brussels.
Which is hypocritical and a piss-weak assertion of "independence".
And it's going to bite them in the arse sooner or later, just as it did for Ireland.

Course, if jocks are keen on the idea of having their economy crash to a 20-year low so they can then claim it's "the fastest growing economy in the EU" as it climbs back out of the shitter, good luck to 'em.

[Ray of Sunshine]

Just out of interest, do you have an alter-ego by the name of Ragamuffin ?

Can't say I do.

[McAz]

If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

It's a bit like the Tories down South saying we must all support Celtic then going to Scotland and saying hey you guys must all support Rangers

Quite so - it makes perfect sense for the Scots to prefer membership of a huge and powerful economic union rather than prop up an isolated and failing England.

[Claire]

If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

I agree then when one looks at Tory hypocrisy, they support leaving a massive union, leaving us weaker, less well off etc they then call on Scots to STAY in the UNION because they will be WEAKER outside and LESS WELL OFF etc. Notice anything not very Kosher about this? Does their left hand know what the right hand is doing?

It's a bit like the Tories down South saying we must all support Celtic then going to Scotland and saying hey you guys must all support Rangers

Quite so - it makes perfect sense for the Scots to prefer membership of a huge and powerful economic union rather than prop up an isolated and failing England.

I'm hoping for a new Indyref.

[Ray of Sunshine]

Just been reading the comments on The National, "fiercely independent Scots" who want to be ruled by bureaucrats in Belgium, seems clear to me that most of them just hate the English.

Well maybe there's also a fair few English people not that keen on them after what Blair and Brown did to England.

[Ray of Sunshine]

Although ironically this pushed more English people into Scotland!

[Cannydc]

Just been reading the comments on The National, "fiercely independent Scots" who want to be ruled by bureaucrats in Belgium, seems clear to me that most of them just hate the English.

Well maybe there's also a fair few English people not that keen on them after what Blair and Brown did to England.

Just imagine.

Inward investment booming, with 65 free trade agreements on place across the world.

The ability to influence EU decisions, and help to decide standards and laws.

The freedom for Scots to live and work in 26 other countries.

Export and import to and from the EU, tariff free.

OR...... Have Rees-Mogg and Bojo decide when to cut your social services and sell off your health service to the Yanks.

Ally yourself to the area with the lowest growth (and falling) in the G7 - the UK

Cut yourself off from tariff free trade with the EU.

Rely on Liam Fox to negotiate new trade agreements.

What a tough choice.

[Dimples]

I'm not entirely sure where this idea comes from that Brussels rules anything.

The UK fought tooth and nail for years to be admitted to the EC and then when it was finally admitted, all it did was complain about everything and ask to for vetoes on various things and wanted to be exempted from everything it didn't like... then when all of those concessions weren''t enough, the endless whining about the "unelected" (what?) European parliament has continued - with Brexit now being the result.

The issue is simply that England wants to dictate policy to everyone else. It's just that it can't get away with that in Europe and it doesn't like that. Perhaps England ought to have considered that before demanding admission to the EC in the first place.

Brexit is nothing to do with the UK - for the simple reason that it isn't "united". It's only England and Wales who want out. Not Scotland and not NI.

[Cannydc]

I'm not entirely sure where this idea comes from that Brussels rules anything.

The UK fought tooth and nail for years to be admitted to the EC and then when it was finally admitted, all it did was complain about everything and ask to for vetoes on various things and wanted to be exempted from everything it didn't like... then when all of those concessions weren''t enough, the endless whining about the "unelected" (what?) European parliament has continued - with Brexit now being the result.

The issue is simply that England wants to dictate policy to everyone else. It's just that it can't get away with that in Europe and it doesn't like that. Perhaps England ought to have considered that before demanding admission to the EC in the first place.

Brexit is nothing to do with the UK - for the simple reason that it isn't "united". It's only England and Wales who want out. Not Scotland and not NI.

You lost - get over it.

(Just getting in first with the usual mindless reply Leavers tend towards).

Sadly, the myths surrounding the EU have been well publicised by all our favourite rags, whose owners all benefit by us being out of the EU and their rags being less well regulated.