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Legislation voted down by large margin, putting UK on brink of constitutional dispute

The Scottish parliament has voted against Theresa May’s Brexit legislation by a large margin, putting the UK on the brink of a major constitutional dispute.

Holyrood rejected the UK government’s EU withdrawal bill by 93 votes to 30 on Tuesday after Labour, the Liberal Democrats and Scottish Greens backed Nicola Sturgeon’s decision to oppose proposals on post-Brexit power sharing set out in clause 11 of the bill.

The vote is not legally binding but it will force the prime minister to make a high-risk decision to impose those power-sharing plans on Scotland or make further concessions to the Scottish government to avoid a crisis.

Imposing powers on Scotland would be unprecedented and fuel Sturgeon’s demands for a second independence referendum, potentially providing the Scottish National party with a further justification for staging one.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... are_btn_fb


Brexshit

So what?

Should have voted for "independence" if they wanted to stay in the EU.

Ray of Sunshine wrote:So what?

Should have voted for "independence" if they wanted to stay in the EU.

No need.

They, and Northern Ireland, will scupper Brexit in all but name.

If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

Cannydc wrote:
No need.

They, and Northern Ireland, will scupper Brexit in all but name.

Why?

Switzerland is not in the EU and has borders with 4 EU countries.

Ray of Sunshine wrote:If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

They want to stay in the EU.

They aren't stupid.

Ray of Sunshine wrote:

Cannydc wrote:
No need.

They, and Northern Ireland, will scupper Brexit in all but name.

Why?

Switzerland is not in the EU and has borders with 4 EU countries.

Switzerland is in the EU in all but name.

The only real difference is that it actually has to pay to trade with the EU, but doesn't get to help make the rules and set standards despite having to obey them.

Guest wrote:

Ray of Sunshine wrote:If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

They want to stay in the EU.

They aren't stupid.

Not independence though is it?

At least being in the UK they elect representatives for the House of Commons and have some say (given Blair and Brown are Scottish and Cameron has Scottish heritage, some might say more say than they should have given the size of the population).

Ray of Sunshine wrote:If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

Ireland has been very successful economically but it has lost a lot of it's Irishness in the process.

Ray of Sunshine wrote:Ireland has been very successful economically but it has lost a lot of it's Irishness in the process.

Ireland is, by most accounts, pretty much fucked right now.

They had a high old time spending the EU's money in the early 2000's but it's all going to other new EU members now.

Ireland is the fastest growing economy in European Union again with growth of 7.8%.

The economy grew by 7.8% of GDP last year, according to preliminary estimates from the Central Statistics Office, making it the European Union's fastest-growing economy for the fourth year in a row.

Positively tanking.

As opposed to stellar UK growth, at 0.1% for Q1 2018, the lowest in the EU....

Si_Crewe wrote:

Ray of Sunshine wrote:If I was Scottish I would want independence but independence from the UK and the EU, no point in independence and still being under the EU yoke.

That's the fundamental hypocrisy of Scottish Nationalists, in a nutshell.

If you're a Scottish Nationalist and you're critical of Britain pulling out of the EU while wanting independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you're concerned that Britain will lose economic opportunities as a result of leaving the EU but not care about the same thing happening to Scotland with independence from Britain, you're a hypocrite.
If you are in favour of independence from Britain but are critical of Britain wanting independence from the EU, you're a hypocrite.

There is no position that a Scottish Nationalist can take which agrees with their party and isn't hypocrisy.

Let's face it, the Scottish Nationalist desire to join the EU as an independent nation is nothing more than short-sighted greed.
They saw all the EU money flowing into Ireland for years and they want some of that action.

Dear dear. I'm a hypocrite.

Cannydc wrote:Ireland is the fastest growing economy in European Union again with growth of 7.8%.

The economy grew by 7.8% of GDP last year, according to preliminary estimates from the Central Statistics Office, making it the European Union's fastest-growing economy for the fourth year in a row.

Positively tanking.

As opposed to stellar UK growth, at 0.1% for Q1 2018, the lowest in the EU....

Here's a graph showing the UK's economic growth since the 1970s: https://www.economicshelp.org/wp-conten ... 24x704.png

And here's a graph showing Ireland's: http://online.wsj.com/media/info-irlecon06-gdp.gif

Looking at both of those graphs, what I see is that EU membership hasn't done anything to boost the UK economy.
I also see that the EU's economy (as a whole) seems to be in gradual decline, much like the UK's.
I also see that Ireland's economy had a massive spike when they joined the EU, followed by a dramatic decline when the EU turned off the money tap.
After that, I guess it isn't surprising that it's growing again.

I mean, good luck to the paddies if they're managing to get back on their feet.
The point, however, is it seems like joining the EU creates a massive temporary boost to a country's economy which is probably why a lot of jocks like the idea.
Meanwhile, ongoing EU membership doesn't seem to provide the same benefits to existing members.

Your graph only goes up to 2005 !!!

So, by missing out a world recession following the Banker's Folly, it completely fails to show the relative recoveries of Ireland, the EU, and of course the UK.

Just to repeat,

Ireland is the fastest growing economy in European Union again with growth of 7.8%.

The economy grew by 7.8% of GDP last year, according to preliminary estimates from the Central Statistics Office, making it the European Union's fastest-growing economy for the fourth year in a row.

And a cursory glance appears to show that Ireland's growth has comfortably exceeded average EU growth since 1992 - 16 years...

Not sure why you are trying to deny this....