Morgan Freeman

[Si_Crewe]

I said teenagers get crushes all the time and the grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation

What is ignorant about that? No, you have read what you wanted to read and run away with it. Well done

A teenager, above the age of consent, IS a "grown-up".

Do you think we should, perhaps, prevent teenagers from voting, driving cars or holding any other responsibilities within society?
I mean, if you're saying that a teenager can't be trusted to make decisions about their sexual activities, surely they can't possibly be fit to make other decisions either?

It seems pretty ignorant to assume that teenagers (or, perhaps, women in general?) aren't capable of making choices for themselves and so it should always be a man's responsibility to make decisions for them.

And then it seems doubly ignorant to assume that all men are capable of making these choices for themselves and on behalf of the women they encounter.

[Claire]

I said teenagers get crushes all the time and the grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation

What is ignorant about that? No, you have read what you wanted to read and run away with it. Well done

A teenager, above the age of consent, IS a "grown-up".

Do you think we should, perhaps, prevent teenagers from voting, driving cars or holding any other responsibilities within society?
I mean, if you're saying that a teenager can't be trusted to make decisions about their sexual activities, surely they can't possibly be fit to make other decisions either?

It seems pretty ignorant to assume that teenagers (or, perhaps, women in general?) aren't capable of making choices for themselves and so it should always be a man's responsibility to make decisions for them.

And then it seems doubly ignorant to assume that all men are capable of making these choices for themselves and on behalf of the women they encounter.

If a 40 year old married man decided to have sex with a 16 year old single girl - that makes him a sleaze and a predator. Normal men would realise she's young and back off. Normal married men would respect their wife.

[Claire]

Just been confirmed that Weinstein has been formally charged 'with rape and several other counts of sexual abuse involving two separate women.'

about time fucking pervs like this are brought to justice.

Great news

[Si_Crewe]

If a 40 year old married man decided to have sex with a 16 year old single girl - that makes him a sleaze and a predator. Normal men would realise she's young and back off. Normal married men would respect their wife.

Well, it's only a personal opinion but I'd agree with you that it's "sleazy" but I don't see how it could automatically be considered predatory.

I'm pretty sure their are plenty of teenage girls out there who're actively intent on shagging rich/famous older guys in just as predatory a manner.

Or, if you're saying that, regardless of the circumstances, it's always up to the man to reject a younger woman's advances, we're back to suggesting that women aren't capable of making these decisions for themselves.

*EDIT*

And then you've got to ask if the reverse also applies to men too?
Are we to assume that an older woman should always reject the advances of a younger man?

If that's the case, it would seem like we're just saying that age-gap relationships shouldn't happen because one or other of the couple are a "sleazy predator".

[Guest]

I said teenagers get crushes all the time and the grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation

What is ignorant about that? No, you have read what you wanted to read and run away with it. Well done

A teenager, above the age of consent, IS a "grown-up".

Do you think we should, perhaps, prevent teenagers from voting, driving cars or holding any other responsibilities within society?
I mean, if you're saying that a teenager can't be trusted to make decisions about their sexual activities, surely they can't possibly be fit to make other decisions either?

It seems pretty ignorant to assume that teenagers (or, perhaps, women in general?) aren't capable of making choices for themselves and so it should always be a man's responsibility to make decisions for them.

And then it seems doubly ignorant to assume that all men are capable of making these choices for themselves and on behalf of the women they encounter.

If a 40 year old married man decided to have sex with a 16 year old single girl - that makes him a sleaze and a predator. Normal men would realise she's young and back off. Normal married men would respect their wife.

How about a 40 yr old gay man and 16 year old boy? Same judgement?

[Si_Crewe]

How about a 40 yr old gay man and 16 year old boy? Same judgement?

Sure.

I'm not saying there aren't scumbags who deliberately target teenagers because they're young and naive.
I'm just saying that there are also teenagers who're equally "predatory" and that equitable relationships happen too.

It seems ignorant to automatically assume that every such relationship must involve the older person taking advantage of the younger one.

[Guest]

How about a 40 yr old gay man and 16 year old boy? Same judgement?

Sure.

I'm not saying there aren't scumbags who deliberately target teenagers because they're young and naive.
I'm just saying that there are also teenagers who're equally "predatory" and that equitable relationships happen too.

It seems ignorant to automatically assume that every such relationship must involve the older person taking advantage of the younger one.

I was testing to see if Claire would apply the same judgement to a gay man.

[Si_Crewe]

I was testing to see if Claire would apply the same judgement to a gay man.

Sorry to interrupt. I thought the question was directed at me.

By the same token, I wonder how people might feel about an Asian/Muslim man hooking up with a young white girl?

I'm sure we're all aware of the recent abuse scandals but the only people who'd actually insist that there's something fundamentally wrong with the an Asian guy hooking up with a young white girl would be racists, bigots and the terminally paranoid.

So, if we're willing to be rational and considerate of one thing, why would anybody make sweeping generalisations about a similar thing?

[Grafenwalder]

Sorry, but the reality is that many accused in this area have admitted guilt already.


On 1 November, the Hollywood Reporter published a guest column by a former intern who accused Dustin Hoffman of sexually harassing her in 1985.
Anna Graham Hunter accused the Oscar-winning actor of groping her and making inappropriate comments about sex to her when she was 17.
In a statement, Hoffman apologised and said he felt "terrible that anything [he] might have done could have put [Ms Hunter] in an uncomfortable situation."

Snipped as this was the part i wanted to respond to. I know about that and read her diary some time back she'd published. Not a good idea! Have your read through all of it? You are aware as a teenager she was having an affair with John Malkovich knowing he was a married man with children? She could have said no....but she didn't. In her own words she was ''deeply in love' with him.

On Hoffman she wrote in her diary, "first of all, Dustin's a lech. I'm completely disillusioned. After Tootsie, I thought I wanted to marry him", "Dustin gave all the girls in the studio a key ring with a little heart that says, "Love, Willy." Of course, I'll flaunt it when I go to school. Dustin's a pig, but I like him a lot. And after watching Hoffman in "All The Presidents Men", texted her sister with "Is it weird that I find him kind of sexy in this after what he did?"

In her late 40's she said about Hoffman, "he was a predator, I was a child, and this was sexual harassment." Yet being 'a child' hadn't stopped her having an affair with a man she knew damn well was married..so who was the predator there in that instance?

Sorry but to me she came across as a star struck flighty teenager who kept a detailed diary for reasons best known only to herself of her musings and fantasies, some of which she obviously realised. Yes Hoffman flirted but lets not kid ourselves here..this was not a 'one way street' as Hunter played up to the attention she got.

Really? So a married man gets involved with a young girl, the girl is to blame in your eyes?
Because she has already been with an older man that makes her fair game and she has no right to complain about harassment from other men .

Teenagers get crushes al the time. The grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation.

Takes two to tango doesn't it? And from her own diary ramblings she was besotted with him so hardly a case of her being 'fair game' or it being 'harassment'.

[Grafenwalder]

Sorry, but the reality is that many accused in this area have admitted guilt already.


On 1 November, the Hollywood Reporter published a guest column by a former intern who accused Dustin Hoffman of sexually harassing her in 1985.
Anna Graham Hunter accused the Oscar-winning actor of groping her and making inappropriate comments about sex to her when she was 17.
In a statement, Hoffman apologised and said he felt "terrible that anything [he] might have done could have put [Ms Hunter] in an uncomfortable situation."

Snipped as this was the part i wanted to respond to. I know about that and read her diary some time back she'd published. Not a good idea! Have your read through all of it? You are aware as a teenager she was having an affair with John Malkovich knowing he was a married man with children? She could have said no....but she didn't. In her own words she was ''deeply in love' with him.

On Hoffman she wrote in her diary, "first of all, Dustin's a lech. I'm completely disillusioned. After Tootsie, I thought I wanted to marry him", "Dustin gave all the girls in the studio a key ring with a little heart that says, "Love, Willy." Of course, I'll flaunt it when I go to school. Dustin's a pig, but I like him a lot. And after watching Hoffman in "All The Presidents Men", texted her sister with "Is it weird that I find him kind of sexy in this after what he did?"

In her late 40's she said about Hoffman, "he was a predator, I was a child, and this was sexual harassment." Yet being 'a child' hadn't stopped her having an affair with a man she knew damn well was married..so who was the predator there in that instance?

Sorry but to me she came across as a star struck flighty teenager who kept a detailed diary for reasons best known only to herself of her musings and fantasies, some of which she obviously realised. Yes Hoffman flirted but lets not kid ourselves here..this was not a 'one way street' as Hunter played up to the attention she got.

Really? So a married man gets involved with a young girl, the girl is to blame in your eyes?
Because she has already been with an older man that makes her fair game and she has no right to complain about harassment from other men .

Teenagers get crushes al the time. The grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation.

That was the part I was going to respond to. The person to blame here was Malkovitch. All of the men mentioned are to blame - not their victims. The men come across as letches who only view women as sexual playthings rather than equals. Sad old bastards.

Yes Malkovich should have told her to go away and grow up but as for 'victim'...victim of what exactly? Why do young girls like Hunter pursue older men anyway? Usually wealth and importance are the major ingredients which attract girls like Hunter. Had Malkovich been some old geezer stacking supermarket shelves she wouldn't have given him the time of day so you can drop the 'poor victim' crap and 'sexual playthings' etc because it won't wash.

[Claire]

Sorry, but the reality is that many accused in this area have admitted guilt already.


On 1 November, the Hollywood Reporter published a guest column by a former intern who accused Dustin Hoffman of sexually harassing her in 1985.
Anna Graham Hunter accused the Oscar-winning actor of groping her and making inappropriate comments about sex to her when she was 17.
In a statement, Hoffman apologised and said he felt "terrible that anything [he] might have done could have put [Ms Hunter] in an uncomfortable situation."

Snipped as this was the part i wanted to respond to. I know about that and read her diary some time back she'd published. Not a good idea! Have your read through all of it? You are aware as a teenager she was having an affair with John Malkovich knowing he was a married man with children? She could have said no....but she didn't. In her own words she was ''deeply in love' with him.

On Hoffman she wrote in her diary, "first of all, Dustin's a lech. I'm completely disillusioned. After Tootsie, I thought I wanted to marry him", "Dustin gave all the girls in the studio a key ring with a little heart that says, "Love, Willy." Of course, I'll flaunt it when I go to school. Dustin's a pig, but I like him a lot. And after watching Hoffman in "All The Presidents Men", texted her sister with "Is it weird that I find him kind of sexy in this after what he did?"

In her late 40's she said about Hoffman, "he was a predator, I was a child, and this was sexual harassment." Yet being 'a child' hadn't stopped her having an affair with a man she knew damn well was married..so who was the predator there in that instance?

Sorry but to me she came across as a star struck flighty teenager who kept a detailed diary for reasons best known only to herself of her musings and fantasies, some of which she obviously realised. Yes Hoffman flirted but lets not kid ourselves here..this was not a 'one way street' as Hunter played up to the attention she got.

Really? So a married man gets involved with a young girl, the girl is to blame in your eyes?
Because she has already been with an older man that makes her fair game and she has no right to complain about harassment from other men .

Teenagers get crushes al the time. The grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation.

That was the part I was going to respond to. The person to blame here was Malkovitch. All of the men mentioned are to blame - not their victims. The men come across as letches who only view women as sexual playthings rather than equals. Sad old bastards.

Yes Malkovich should have told her to go away and grow up but as for 'victim'...victim of what exactly? Why do young girls like Hunter pursue older men anyway? Usually wealth and importance are the major ingredients which attract girls like Hunter. Had Malkovich been some old geezer stacking supermarket shelves she wouldn't have given him the time of day so you can drop the 'poor victim' crap and 'sexual playthings' etc because it won't wash.

Malcovitch was married...

[Claire]

I said teenagers get crushes all the time and the grown-up thing to do is nothing that will take advantage of the situation

What is ignorant about that? No, you have read what you wanted to read and run away with it. Well done

A teenager, above the age of consent, IS a "grown-up".

Do you think we should, perhaps, prevent teenagers from voting, driving cars or holding any other responsibilities within society?
I mean, if you're saying that a teenager can't be trusted to make decisions about their sexual activities, surely they can't possibly be fit to make other decisions either?

It seems pretty ignorant to assume that teenagers (or, perhaps, women in general?) aren't capable of making choices for themselves and so it should always be a man's responsibility to make decisions for them.

And then it seems doubly ignorant to assume that all men are capable of making these choices for themselves and on behalf of the women they encounter.

If a 40 year old married man decided to have sex with a 16 year old single girl - that makes him a sleaze and a predator. Normal men would realise she's young and back off. Normal married men would respect their wife.

How about a 40 yr old gay man and 16 year old boy? Same judgement?

Absolutely. We're talking about shagging here, not two people of different ages falling for each other over time. If the gay man is married, that makes it worse.

[Si_Crewe]

Malcovitch was married...

And is that the issue here?

Does it stop being "sleazy and predatory" if the man is single?

[Claire]

If a 40 year old married man decided to have sex with a 16 year old single girl - that makes him a sleaze and a predator. Normal men would realise she's young and back off. Normal married men would respect their wife.

Well, it's only a personal opinion but I'd agree with you that it's "sleazy" but I don't see how it could automatically be considered predatory.

I'm pretty sure their are plenty of teenage girls out there who're actively intent on shagging rich/famous older guys in just as predatory a manner.

Or, if you're saying that, regardless of the circumstances, it's always up to the man to reject a younger woman's advances, we're back to suggesting that women aren't capable of making these decisions for themselves.

*EDIT*

And then you've got to ask if the reverse also applies to men too?
Are we to assume that an older woman should always reject the advances of a younger man?

If that's the case, it would seem like we're just saying that age-gap relationships shouldn't happen because one or other of the couple are a "sleazy predator".

It would depend who approached who. I'm not saying age gap relationships are wrong in themselves. Just that a quick shag with a teenager is sleaze personified.

[Claire]

Malcovitch was married...

And is that the issue here?

Does it stop being "sleazy and predatory" if the man is single?

No. Being married just makes Malcovitch worse.