Mungo's monetary musings.

Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:16 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:..... But in fact, money is being created out of thin air all the time. And this process has hugely important implications for issues like housing, inequality and the environment.

Most of the money we use comes in digital form, as the numbers we see on our bank statements. This money is created by private banks like HSBC and Natwest when they make loans. They create it by simply typing numbers into a computer – some might call this magic!
http://positivemoney.org/what-we-do/magic-money-tree/


Wow! Creating money out of thin air
You should show Corbyn how to do that
He can pay for all his election promises with thin air

Fuck me your thick you don't even believe The Bank of England.
Or don't understand.
I think you lack understanding.
The textbooks are wrong according to the bank.
Not long ago The Bank of England denied all of this but under pressure because of the internet they finally caved in and admitted to the world that you're a wanker.


You don’t even know what a textbook is
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Gigabit » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:27 pm

Mungo is so clearly a complete idiot and a liar. There is no way he ever went to University with such little knowledge.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:27 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:..... But in fact, money is being created out of thin air all the time. And this process has hugely important implications for issues like housing, inequality and the environment.

Most of the money we use comes in digital form, as the numbers we see on our bank statements. This money is created by private banks like HSBC and Natwest when they make loans. They create it by simply typing numbers into a computer – some might call this magic!
http://positivemoney.org/what-we-do/magic-money-tree/


Wow! Creating money out of thin air
You should show Corbyn how to do that
He can pay for all his election promises with thin air

Fuck me your thick you don't even believe The Bank of England.
Or don't understand.
I think you lack understanding.
The textbooks are wrong according to the bank.
Not long ago The Bank of England denied all of this but under pressure because of the internet they finally caved in and admitted to the world that you're a wanker.


You don’t even know what a textbook is

Just admit you made a complete twat of yourself again.
Can you do that?
All those ranting posts were utter nonsense.
We tried telling you.
Tried to stop you embarrassing yourself but no you had to talk utter ill informed crap .... again and again.
Now you're reduced to the silly little comebacks.
You'll get over it quicker by admitting you're a complete dick.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:28 pm

Mungo go back to the anti semite stuff.
You were wrong in all of that too but it was more entertaining.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:38 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:..... But in fact, money is being created out of thin air all the time. And this process has hugely important implications for issues like housing, inequality and the environment.

Most of the money we use comes in digital form, as the numbers we see on our bank statements. This money is created by private banks like HSBC and Natwest when they make loans. They create it by simply typing numbers into a computer – some might call this magic!
http://positivemoney.org/what-we-do/magic-money-tree/


Wow! Creating money out of thin air
You should show Corbyn how to do that
He can pay for all his election promises with thin air

Fuck me your thick you don't even believe The Bank of England.
Or don't understand.
I think you lack understanding.
The textbooks are wrong according to the bank.
Not long ago The Bank of England denied all of this but under pressure because of the internet they finally caved in and admitted to the world that you're a wanker.


You don’t even know what a textbook is

Just admit you made a complete twat of yourself again.
Can you do that?
All those ranting posts were utter nonsense.
We tried telling you.
Tried to stop you embarrassing yourself but no you had to talk utter ill informed crap .... again and again.
Now you're reduced to the silly little comebacks.
You'll get over it quicker by admitting you're a complete dick.


That’s where you are displaying your ignorance
Textbooks are used in schools and for some entry level university courses
Higher education is based on published research and academic papers
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:40 pm

Gigabit wrote:Mungo is so clearly a complete idiot and a liar. There is no way he ever went to University with such little knowledge.


And here comes gigabit
Reinforcing the results of that research into the IQ of Labour voters
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:41 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:Fuck me your thick you don't even believe The Bank of England.
Or don't understand.
I think you lack understanding.
The textbooks are wrong according to the bank.
Not long ago The Bank of England denied all of this but under pressure because of the internet they finally caved in and admitted to the world that you're a wanker.


You don’t even know what a textbook is

Just admit you made a complete twat of yourself again.
Can you do that?
All those ranting posts were utter nonsense.
We tried telling you.
Tried to stop you embarrassing yourself but no you had to talk utter ill informed crap .... again and again.
Now you're reduced to the silly little comebacks.
You'll get over it quicker by admitting you're a complete dick.


That’s where you are displaying your ignorance
Textbooks are used in schools and for some entry level university courses
Higher education is based on published research and academic papers




Which The Bank of England used to support but no longer do.
The ones they support now are the truth instead of the bullshit.
Give it up Bean you're all washed up with nowhere to go.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Cannydc » Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:43 pm

Mungo, you have taken such a beating over various subjects recently on here, if there were a ref he would have stopped the fight.

Don't you have a friend in your corner who could throw in the towel on your behalf ?

Viper ? Malcom ?

Anyone ?
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby calitom » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:16 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
calitom wrote:"Why don't you try it?
Deposit £1,000 into your bank account
Make a loan to your mother of £1,000
Deposit that £1,000 into her loan account

See how much better off you are?
You've just created "money" out of thin air.

It's that easy you should be rich in no time."

You didnt create any money out of thin air. What are you talking about?


This started when Fletch posted "Banks create money out of thin air"
I kid you not
Those are his actual words.


oi vay...;)---amazing how some banks go out of business then. Must be when they lose their magicians card.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby calitom » Sun Jun 10, 2018 5:19 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:Fuck me your thick you don't even believe The Bank of England.
Or don't understand.
I think you lack understanding.
The textbooks are wrong according to the bank.
Not long ago The Bank of England denied all of this but under pressure because of the internet they finally caved in and admitted to the world that you're a wanker.


You don’t even know what a textbook is

Just admit you made a complete twat of yourself again.
Can you do that?
All those ranting posts were utter nonsense.
We tried telling you.
Tried to stop you embarrassing yourself but no you had to talk utter ill informed crap .... again and again.
Now you're reduced to the silly little comebacks.
You'll get over it quicker by admitting you're a complete dick.


That’s where you are displaying your ignorance
Textbooks are used in schools and for some entry level university courses
Higher education is based on published research and academic papers




Which The Bank of England used to support but no longer do.
The ones they support now are the truth instead of the bullshit.
Give it up Bean you're all washed up with nowhere to go.


dear God Jack have you ever been to an american liberal arts college?
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Fletch » Sun Jun 10, 2018 6:16 pm

calitom wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
calitom wrote:"Why don't you try it?
Deposit £1,000 into your bank account
Make a loan to your mother of £1,000
Deposit that £1,000 into her loan account

See how much better off you are?
You've just created "money" out of thin air.

It's that easy you should be rich in no time."

You didnt create any money out of thin air. What are you talking about?


This started when Fletch posted "Banks create money out of thin air"
I kid you not
Those are his actual words.


oi vay...;)---amazing how some banks go out of business then. Must be when they lose their magicians card.


That happens when banks have gambled too much and then lost. Creating money as loans is a bet. They are not lending someone else's money, the money never existed before the loan was made. The gamble is that the loan is repaid and then the created money can be deleted from the books and it's all back to normal. If the loan is not repaid, or in the case of a mortgage, the loan sliced and diced with others loans then sold on as financial investments, then there is a problem if the loan 'stops performing'. (goes in to default) The bank has to make up that loss.

What you have to remember is that all money is created out of thin air on a computer as debt. ie a loan.

Regulation of banking means sticking to a leverage of around 35 times. The idea of capital reserves is that not all of the deposits can be used to create money, hence limiting banks to around the 35 times mentioned.

When a loan doesn't perform (defaults) it causes a liquidity problem. Suddenly banks are outside the lending ratios and have less ability to carry out day to day functions due to that imbalance. The solution in the 2008 crash was to inject capital so the lending ratios were back within limits and enable liquidity to be available for day to day business.It was in effect a paperwork exercise with the money to bail them out also being created on a computer with the government signing up to the debt. They took shares in the banks in return for the capital but those were also created at the time by the banks.

How loans become deposits:

Person A borrows 1000 from bank 1.

Bank 1 created the money when the loan was agreed

Person A buys a car from person B. He pays person B 1000 for car.

Person B pays the 1000 in to his bank, Bank 2.

Bank 2 now has 1000 deposit which can be leveraged to loan out 35,000.

Money is created as debt but has to be laundered through a third party. Banks can't create debt for themselves, only the BoE can do that. The central bank has no limit on how much it can create, commercial banks do.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby calitom » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:55 am

Fletch wrote:
calitom wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
calitom wrote:"Why don't you try it?
Deposit £1,000 into your bank account
Make a loan to your mother of £1,000
Deposit that £1,000 into her loan account

See how much better off you are?
You've just created "money" out of thin air.

It's that easy you should be rich in no time."

You didnt create any money out of thin air. What are you talking about?


This started when Fletch posted "Banks create money out of thin air"
I kid you not
Those are his actual words.


oi vay...;)---amazing how some banks go out of business then. Must be when they lose their magicians card.


That happens when banks have gambled too much and then lost. Creating money as loans is a bet. They are not lending someone else's money, the money never existed before the loan was made. The gamble is that the loan is repaid and then the created money can be deleted from the books and it's all back to normal. If the loan is not repaid, or in the case of a mortgage, the loan sliced and diced with others loans then sold on as financial investments, then there is a problem if the loan 'stops performing'. (goes in to default) The bank has to make up that loss.

What you have to remember is that all money is created out of thin air on a computer as debt. ie a loan.

Regulation of banking means sticking to a leverage of around 35 times. The idea of capital reserves is that not all of the deposits can be used to create money, hence limiting banks to around the 35 times mentioned.

When a loan doesn't perform (defaults) it causes a liquidity problem. Suddenly banks are outside the lending ratios and have less ability to carry out day to day functions due to that imbalance. The solution in the 2008 crash was to inject capital so the lending ratios were back within limits and enable liquidity to be available for day to day business.It was in effect a paperwork exercise with the money to bail them out also being created on a computer with the government signing up to the debt. They took shares in the banks in return for the capital but those were also created at the time by the banks.

How loans become deposits:

Person A borrows 1000 from bank 1.

Bank 1 created the money when the loan was agreed

Person A buys a car from person B. He pays person B 1000 for car.

Person B pays the 1000 in to his bank, Bank 2.

Bank 2 now has 1000 deposit which can be leveraged to loan out 35,000.

Money is created as debt but has to be laundered through a third party. Banks can't create debt for themselves, only the BoE can do that. The central bank has no limit on how much it can create, commercial banks do.


fletch---the prob with your example is that most loans are secured. the bank still owns the car.the bank still owns the house etc.
otherwise people normally just pay cash.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Cannydc » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:09 am

The item purchased (if one was purchased - people borrow for holidays, new bathrooms, kitchens, to pay the kid's school fees etc) won't be worth the money borrowed. A default inevitably means a loss for the bank.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Gigabit » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:24 am

The underlying point I think is that banking is in many cases, legitimised fraud. What else can you call the 2008 crash when several banks knowlingly bought really bad subprime loans and then shorted them, then sold the loans, guaranteeing a profit at the expense of people losing their homes? And they knew, they knew, the taxpayer would bail them out. Shame about the poor that lost their homes but don't worry about them, I here the CEOs all got nice bonuses that year.

It is disgraceful.
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Re: Mungo's monetary musings.

Postby Fletch » Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:14 am

calitom wrote:
Fletch wrote:
calitom wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
calitom wrote:"Why don't you try it?
Deposit £1,000 into your bank account
Make a loan to your mother of £1,000
Deposit that £1,000 into her loan account

See how much better off you are?
You've just created "money" out of thin air.

It's that easy you should be rich in no time."

You didnt create any money out of thin air. What are you talking about?


This started when Fletch posted "Banks create money out of thin air"
I kid you not
Those are his actual words.


oi vay...;)---amazing how some banks go out of business then. Must be when they lose their magicians card.


That happens when banks have gambled too much and then lost. Creating money as loans is a bet. They are not lending someone else's money, the money never existed before the loan was made. The gamble is that the loan is repaid and then the created money can be deleted from the books and it's all back to normal. If the loan is not repaid, or in the case of a mortgage, the loan sliced and diced with others loans then sold on as financial investments, then there is a problem if the loan 'stops performing'. (goes in to default) The bank has to make up that loss.

What you have to remember is that all money is created out of thin air on a computer as debt. ie a loan.

Regulation of banking means sticking to a leverage of around 35 times. The idea of capital reserves is that not all of the deposits can be used to create money, hence limiting banks to around the 35 times mentioned.

When a loan doesn't perform (defaults) it causes a liquidity problem. Suddenly banks are outside the lending ratios and have less ability to carry out day to day functions due to that imbalance. The solution in the 2008 crash was to inject capital so the lending ratios were back within limits and enable liquidity to be available for day to day business.It was in effect a paperwork exercise with the money to bail them out also being created on a computer with the government signing up to the debt. They took shares in the banks in return for the capital but those were also created at the time by the banks.

How loans become deposits:

Person A borrows 1000 from bank 1.

Bank 1 created the money when the loan was agreed

Person A buys a car from person B. He pays person B 1000 for car.

Person B pays the 1000 in to his bank, Bank 2.

Bank 2 now has 1000 deposit which can be leveraged to loan out 35,000.

Money is created as debt but has to be laundered through a third party. Banks can't create debt for themselves, only the BoE can do that. The central bank has no limit on how much it can create, commercial banks do.


fletch---the prob with your example is that most loans are secured. the bank still owns the car.the bank still owns the house etc.
otherwise people normally just pay cash.


Not true Tom. Personal loans are unsecured borrowing. Mortgages or large sums are secured, that is where you use the deeds or pledge assets in exchange for the loan, that is secured borrowing. Unsecured means no asset to recover though banks used to ensure people had a way to afford the loans they were applying for but that went out of the window with the widespread use of computers.

Banks have a legal right to recover unpaid monies, that is what government backing of FIAT money means. It legitimises the money supply from private banks and gives confidence to the use of that currency. Even then, you'll often see debts sold on for pennies in the pound/dollar/euro and a whole industry of debt collectors exist to feed off the misery of those in debt. Banks also have their own debt recovery agents usually trading under a different name but they are actually that bank. That's the first port of call then it's sold on if it proves too difficult/time consuming or of questionable enforcement. (such as credit cards with no original agreement available)
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