Corbyn and Brexit

Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:28 pm

Fletch wrote:Personal opinions on what is right or wrong have no bearing on the fundamentals of democracy. The right of the public to have their decision upheld in a national vote. Another vote, disguised as whatever they choose, would still be an affront to the system relied on for a very long time.

When have we relied on referendums?
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Cannydc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:44 pm

Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Fletch » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:50 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:
Fletch wrote:Personal opinions on what is right or wrong have no bearing on the fundamentals of democracy. The right of the public to have their decision upheld in a national vote. Another vote, disguised as whatever they choose, would still be an affront to the system relied on for a very long time.

When have we relied on referendums?


We've relied on national votes to decide for decades Jack. The public were led to believe they were being given a choice on the EU and a national vote on it took place, just like a general election takes place. If they renege on it, what next? Renege on elections, just some candidates or maybe local elections?

Not liking the result or the msm exploiting the situation with threats from corporations, who can see compensation/grants or savings ahead, claiming that it's just Brexit that is the reason are not reaosns to run the viote again. We never have done for anything in the past and shouldn't start now.

Just think, do you really trust the word of corporations? Look at their track record. They want a corporate world and that corporate world has delivered us the situation we are in now. More of it won't cure it, JC or not. Corporations can and will have power to sue governments for reducing their profits through policies or any other action. Is that what we want? :dunno:

I see two stages for reversal. One, out of the EU. The second, rid of the Tories and put a true Labour government in power.

When bubbles go pop in the stock market, the money will all disappear as usual and government will be left to pick up the pieces. Not everything that is shiny is gold.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Fletch » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:53 pm

Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.


Hiding behind technicalities not made clear at the outset is playing fast and loose with the system we've enjoyed for a long time.

Had it been made clear, turnout would have been dismal and I expect the Tories wouldn't have been voted in because of that promise in 2015. Maybe we should run that one again for false advertising?
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby McAz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:55 pm

Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Fletch » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:06 pm

McAz wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.


They already made one. We vote once on decisions offered to the public and work with that decision.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby McAz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:30 pm

Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.


They already made one. We vote once on decisions offered to the public and work with that decision.


I was offered nothing but empty promises and nationalistic bollox. It's time to sober up.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Fletch » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:36 pm

McAz wrote:
Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.


They already made one. We vote once on decisions offered to the public and work with that decision.


I was offered nothing but empty promises and nationalistic bollox. It's time to sober up.


What's to say your not being told the same now? :dunno:

Having not actually left yet, how can any benefits or losses be assessed?
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby McAz » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:54 pm

Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.


They already made one. We vote once on decisions offered to the public and work with that decision.


I was offered nothing but empty promises and nationalistic bollox. It's time to sober up.


What's to say your not being told the same now? :dunno:

Having not actually left yet, how can any benefits or losses be assessed?


When the likes of Gove, Boris, Rees-Mogg and Farage et al, not to mention far-right cunts of every persuasion, tell me something is good for me I'm not going to stick around to wait and see. Apologies.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:05 pm

Have to disagree Fletch.
This was not a vote.
The deception used was of a whole new order and it's pretty clear why Airbus BMW Nissan won't want to work here under circumstances that were not spelled out to the people who will be thrown on the scrap heap.
Those who will make the most from this mass deception are already moving everything to do with their money making exploits out of the UK and advising others to follow suit.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Cannydc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:10 pm

Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Fletch wrote:
McAz wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Obviously the concept of an ADVISORY referendum can be conveniently ignored in the name of 'democracy'.

The gov't have not ignored it, instead they have done their best to run with what the people advised. Now they should report back to ask the people to make a committed decision.


They already made one. We vote once on decisions offered to the public and work with that decision.


I was offered nothing but empty promises and nationalistic bollox. It's time to sober up.


What's to say your not being told the same now? :dunno:

Having not actually left yet, how can any benefits or losses be assessed?


You're right - we haven't left yet.

Which makes it all the more worrying to see jobs being quietly exported, absolutely no answer to the NI border question, Tory ministers and MPs exporting their funds, Leave politicians taking up EU citizenship, a cabinet at war and unable to face EU negotiations with a united front, big companies warning of a mass exodus, external investment to the UK has fallen 20% in the last year, the GBP at a 7 month low, the idea that we would be relying on Trump for a trade deal meant to replace 65 free trade deals we will lose on a few short months, the fact that it takes at least 7 years to negotiate any trade deal in the real world, and finally that we actually have a government who never believed in the benefits of Brexit - and probably for very sensible reasons.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:14 pm

We had a referendum on the future of this country that affects every person alive and not yet born regarding the direction this country should go in economically.
Economics and international trade are not things the general public know anything about.
It was a set up.
This is possibly the most important thing this country has faced for generations and despite its complexity it was given over to people who can't name their own MP.
They know who is in and who is out of the big brother house.
That is not democracy it's taking the piss.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Cannydc » Thu Jun 28, 2018 11:23 pm

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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Cannydc » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:02 am

Meanwhile, to back up my post above..

A leading Conservative is urging “ambitious” British firms to move to Malta after Brexit, triggering criticism that he is “selling our country down the river”.

Lord Ashcroft, a major party donor and former treasurer, hailed the Mediterranean island as a “superb location for UK companies needing an EU base”, once withdrawal is completed.

The peer admitted some companies would move “tens of thousands” of posts, saying: “Some UK firms have understandably decided, particularly in a period of uncertainty, that they will need a base in the EU in future.”

And he added: “Malta can match, or even better, other European countries in terms of what the island can offer to UK firms and its employees.”


Nice.
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Re: Corbyn and Brexit

Postby Punk » Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:15 am

Cannydc wrote:Meanwhile, to back up my post above..

A leading Conservative is urging “ambitious” British firms to move to Malta after Brexit, triggering criticism that he is “selling our country down the river”.

Lord Ashcroft, a major party donor and former treasurer, hailed the Mediterranean island as a “superb location for UK companies needing an EU base”, once withdrawal is completed.

The peer admitted some companies would move “tens of thousands” of posts, saying: “Some UK firms have understandably decided, particularly in a period of uncertainty, that they will need a base in the EU in future.”

And he added: “Malta can match, or even better, other European countries in terms of what the island can offer to UK firms and its employees.”


Nice.


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