What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Maddog » Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:35 pm

Same as 20th century, duh.

And it's beauty is in it's simplicity that can be applied to people and governments.

1. First, do no harm.

A free people can do whatever they like, so long as they are not trampling upon the natural rights of others. My rights end where yours begin. Libertarians are against the use of force for social or political gain.

2. Every person has a right to self defense.

Libertarianism is opposed to violence, but there is an innate right to defend oneself against violence. To take away that right is the use of force and violence itself.

3. Do not use force to accomplish political and social goals.

4. Don’t steal.

Do not take the property and hard earned income of others – whether it be by yourself or through government.

5. Every person owns his or her own body.

No person, government, or group can rightly have authority over another person’s body (or labor). By our very nature, we are in dominion over our own bodies, regardless of what we decide to do with them.

6. Our property is ours to do with as we please.

So long as we are not damaging others or their property, no government, person, or group can rightly have dominion over the property of another person.

7. The rights of the individual are always greater than the rights of a group or collective.

People are individuals and must be viewed as such above any sort of collective group. In a free society, it is the rights of individuals that are protected – not society or any other collective group.

There are other things many other libertarians would add, but I believe those to be the most basic that cover most issues. It’s really simple and straight forward. Libertarians may argue and come to metaphorical fists on the implications and applications of these principles, but would likely agree upon all the principles themselves. There is an innate desire in every person to be master of his own life, and to be free. If liberty is the most desired political goal, then libertarian principles are the most important. In order for the liberty movement to band together under single banner and for a common cause, this is where all members of the libertarian movement should come together.


https://beinglibertarian.com/7-basic-pr ... tarianism/
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Lady Murasaki » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:44 am

Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby MungoBrush » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:55 am

Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Lady Murasaki » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:05 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby calitom » Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:10 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.


Yes..of course there are many complications to this issue. America went without federal taxes for quite a while and did very well.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby wutang » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:52 pm

Adam Smith to Richard Spencer: Why Libertarians turn to the Alt-Right

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https://medium.com/@elliotgulliverneedh ... 9747a44db9


To understand why libertarians are so susceptible to white supremacist ideas, we have to look at the history of it, specifically within the United States. The fact is that libertarianism has always been a refuge of racism and implicit support for authoritarianism, despite direct contradiction to their supposed ideology. Throughout history, the men who are considered the cornerstone of the right libertarian philosophy supported brutal dictators. Look at Mises’ support of Mussolini, or Hayek and Friedman’s backing of Pinochet. It is clear that the these people have always been willing to put aside ideology for what they see as an end that justifies the means, even in such morally abhorrent cases as supporting Apartheid in South Africa or the Confederacy under the pretence of ‘states rights’. This lingering white supremacy in the libertarian movement carried on beyond the mid twentieth century, into the ideologies of Murray Rothbard and Lew Rockwell. Rothbard himself wrote that “The proper strategy of libertarians and paleos is a strategy of ‘right-wing populism” Essentially, that means appealing to the racism held within the right of American society (not dissimilar to what we see in Donald Trump).



As hinted at by its historical development, libertarianism is particularly appealing to white middle class men. It seems fairly obvious why; this group is perhaps the most privileged in our society, and sees little reason for a change in the societal order in place. Similarly, the alt-right and all levels of far-right politics hold exactly the same goal, though admittedly they aim to achieve them through different means. But when the advantages start to erode, that’s when they are forced to turn to more reactionary, authoritarian ideologies. Immigration is an ideal example for this, since under a libertarian ideology, immigration should not be restricted in any way. Borders are one of the major constructs of the state, and we shouldn’t be restricting the right of people to choose where they live. However, if you actually talk to libertarians, very often you’ll find that they are far more against immigration than their supposed ideology would suggest.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Stooo » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:54 pm

calitom wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.


Yes..of course there are many complications to this issue. America went without federal taxes for quite a while and did very well.


But now your roads and bridges are failing.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby wutang » Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:58 pm

THis bit sums up perfectly why libertarians almost always end up backing fascism

Historically, when faced with a choice between the two, the capitalist will side with the fascist. Now is no different. In this time of extreme polarisation, we’re seeing reactionaries flocking to the side they are closest to. Private property is perhaps the strongest libertarian principle, above any other, and socialists are the ones who want to abolish it, not fascists.


all their talk about rights and liberties is bullshit. what it always comes down to is property (wealth) and they will support anything that will protect their property.... including the most ruthlessly authoritarian governments as long as they protect their precious wealth from the organised push back of the have nots.

This is why libertarianism is purely an ideology of the privileged sections of society.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Maddog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:06 pm

wutang wrote:THis bit sums up perfectly why libertarians almost always end up backing fascism

Historically, when faced with a choice between the two, the capitalist will side with the fascist. Now is no different. In this time of extreme polarisation, we’re seeing reactionaries flocking to the side they are closest to. Private property is perhaps the strongest libertarian principle, above any other, and socialists are the ones who want to abolish it, not fascists.


all their talk about rights and liberties is bullshit. what it always comes down to is property (wealth) and they will support anything that will protect their property.... including the most ruthlessly authoritarian governments as long as they protect their precious wealth from the organised push back of the have nots.

This is why libertarianism is purely an ideology of the privileged sections of society.



Libertarians will always side with those that promote the most freedom. Sometimes that's been people on the right as opposed to people on the left. Because both sides have stomped the living s*** out of human beings throughout history.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Maddog » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:08 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.



Who gets to decide what's a good use? The person that earn the money, or the person that's taking the money?
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby calitom » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:53 pm

Stooo wrote:
calitom wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.


Yes..of course there are many complications to this issue. America went without federal taxes for quite a while and did very well.


But now your roads and bridges are failing.


so high taxes cause roads and bridges to fail?
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby wutang » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:42 am

Maddog wrote:

....The person that earn the money, or the person that's taking the money?



Capitalists don't earn the money, the labour of their workers is responsible for earning the money. The capitalists are the ones taking it.

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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby wutang » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:56 am

Maddog wrote:
Libertarians will always side with those that promote the most freedom.


Mussolini, Pinochet, Apartheid South Africa, the Confederacy (a literal slave state).

Bastions of freedom to a man :ooer:

Maddog wrote:Sometimes that's been people on the right as opposed to people on the left


Anarchists were a major opposition group to Mussolini. Yet Hayek prefered to support Mussolini :again?:

So much for 'those that promote the most freedom'
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Lady Murasaki » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:52 pm

Maddog wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.



Who gets to decide what's a good use? The person that earn the money, or the person that's taking the money?


The people who are voted in to make these decisions.
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Re: What is 21st Century Libertarianism?

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:16 pm

calitom wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:Where do I sign up?

What about, Your happiness is your own responsibility.


Does point 4 mean that they are anti tax?


:laughing:

Taxes aren’t stealing when put to good use, healthcare/education / infrastructure.


Yes..of course there are many complications to this issue. America went without federal taxes for quite a while and did very well.

Taxes on your earnings came in to pay the never ending debt from money being produced at interest by the banks.
All hose taxes go straight to the federal reserve bankers.
They get spent on nothing.
Yes your country was doing very well till the federal reserve was set up.
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