Saudi journalist "missing"

[Rolluplostinspace]

So the story now is he died in a fight in the embassy.
All those extra highly trained security men couldn't stop a fight.
Someone dies in a fight it's tradition to have a doctor on hand to cut the body up so it can be disposed of?
There will of course be people who buy this shit.

[LordRaven]

So the story now is he died in a fight in the embassy.
All those extra highly trained security men couldn't stop a fight.
Someone dies in a fight it's tradition to have a doctor on hand to cut the body up so it can be disposed of?
There will of course be people who buy this shit.

The Donald and his mob are buying it, it's amazing how money oil and arms deals can warp reality and convince simple minds to accept a load of utter bollocks.

[wutang]

The Donald and his mob are buying it, it's amazing how money oil and arms deals can warp reality and convince simple minds to accept a load of utter bollocks.

Nah, they know its bullshit just as much as you or I (well maybe Trump believes it but that's cos he has holes in his brain).

The reason they will regurgitate the lie is for the same reason the West keep promoting the Saudi Royal family as "progress reformers" - PR.
The West's foundational myth is based on championing things like democracy, freedom, human rights, liberty, etc,etc. Hard to maintain that myth if you openly acknowledge that your best mates are bloodthirsty, tyrannical, psychopaths.

[LordRaven]

The Donald and his mob are buying it, it's amazing how money oil and arms deals can warp reality and convince simple minds to accept a load of utter bollocks.

Nah, they know its bullshit just as much as you or I (well maybe Trump believes it but that's cos he has holes in his brain).

The reason they will regurgitate the lie is for the same reason the West keep promoting the Saudi Royal family as "progress reformers" - PR.
The West's foundational myth is based on championing things like democracy, freedom, human rights, liberty, etc,etc. Hard to maintain that myth if you openly acknowledge that your best mates are bloodthirsty, tyrannical, psychopaths.

I am well aware that the Orange One doesn't believe it but he's toeing the Saudi line and trying to convince the American public because, as he's just said on the news, they are a great ally who balance the Iranian threat in the middle east.
It suits him, he wants to fuck Iran and he will need all the support he can get in that region to do so.
It's a bit like Churchill and Stalin, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc -- even if they are tyrannical bloodthirsty savages.

[wutang]

It's a bit like Churchill and Stalin, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc -- even if they are tyrannical bloodthirsty savages.

Both those guys were tyrannical bloodthirsty savages

As the millions Churchill starved to death in India will attest to

Like I said the West is founded on a number of myths and in order to maintain them it has to lie to itself.

[LordRaven]

It's a bit like Churchill and Stalin, the enemy of my enemy is my friend etc -- even if they are tyrannical bloodthirsty savages.

Both those guys were tyrannical bloodthirsty savages

As the millions Churchill starved to death in India will attest to

Like I said the West is founded on a number of myths and in order to maintain them it has to lie to itself.

Yes the Lusitania being willingly sacrificed shows that Churchill would go to any lengths to achieve his ends, he was a bloodthirsty individual willing to do whatever it took to get what he wanted.
And with a Mad Bastard in Berlin we needed such a person to combat the Nazis, so when measuring the scales he will still come out on top as a great leader.
Bomber Harris was again very necessary at his time because he gave us the only means of fighting back and had he not we would have been fucked.
It is easy to criticise in hindsight

[wutang]

Yes the Lusitania being willingly sacrificed shows that Churchill would go to any lengths to achieve his ends, he was a bloodthirsty individual willing to do whatever it took to get what he wanted.
And with a Mad Bastard in Berlin we needed such a person to combat the Nazis, so when measuring the scales he will still come out on top as a great leader.
Bomber Harris was again very necessary at his time because he gave us the only means of fighting back and had he not we would have been fucked.
It is easy to criticise in hindsight

Sound like same justification Stalinists make to excuse his crimes.

At least 3 million Indias starved to death in Bengal while the monster Churchill exported their food away and joked about it.

Genocidal tyrant.

[Rolluplostinspace]

Imagine if this was The Russians.
Sanctions galore and threats of war.
Serious name calling but no .... let's find an excuse quick.

[LordRaven]

Yes the Lusitania being willingly sacrificed shows that Churchill would go to any lengths to achieve his ends, he was a bloodthirsty individual willing to do whatever it took to get what he wanted.
And with a Mad Bastard in Berlin we needed such a person to combat the Nazis, so when measuring the scales he will still come out on top as a great leader.
Bomber Harris was again very necessary at his time because he gave us the only means of fighting back and had he not we would have been fucked.
It is easy to criticise in hindsight

Sound like same justification Stalinists make to excuse his crimes.

At least 3 million Indias starved to death in Bengal while the monster Churchill exported their food away and joked about it.

Genocidal tyrant.

So you'd have preferred Britain was defeated in WW2?
I guess your defeatism is immovable so let's forget this subject

[wutang]

So you'd have preferred Britain was defeated in WW2?

The better question was would I have preferred fascism defeated in WW2? because it wasnt. The war wasn't about that, it was one genocidal empire against another, which is why Britain was carrying out nazi-esque atrocities AFTER the war ended (see: malaysia, Kenya, Nigeria, etc) and even helped put Nazi's back in power in places like Greece.

Like I said the West is founded on a myth and has to lie to itself to keep believing in it.

[LordRaven]

So you'd have preferred Britain was defeated in WW2?

The better question was would I have preferred fascism defeated in WW2? because it wasnt. The war wasn't about that, it was one genocidal empire against another, which is why Britain was carrying out nazi-esque atrocities AFTER the war ended (see: malaysia, Kenya, Nigeria, etc) and even helped put Nazi's back in power in places like Greece.

Like I said the West is founded on a myth and has to lie to itself to keep believing in it.

That is quite an interesting point of view, but you might do well to remember that it was not one empire against another because you had the French Empire the Soviet Italian and Japanese Empires involved too and Adolph wanted to create his Empire to supercede them all, because he was extremely bitter about defeat in WW1 and the ridiculously punitive Versailles Treaty.

I think you have oversimplified the matter, and it seems you despise the British too. Why is that?

[Lady Murasaki]

So you'd have preferred Britain was defeated in WW2?

The better question was would I have preferred fascism defeated in WW2? because it wasnt. The war wasn't about that, it was one genocidal empire against another, which is why Britain was carrying out nazi-esque atrocities AFTER the war ended (see: malaysia, Kenya, Nigeria, etc) and even helped put Nazi's back in power in places like Greece.

Like I said the West is founded on a myth and has to lie to itself to keep believing in it.

That is quite an interesting point of view, but you might do well to remember that it was not one empire against another because you had the French Empire the Soviet Italian and Japanese Empires involved too and Adolph wanted to create his Empire to supercede them all, because he was extremely bitter about defeat in WW1 and the ridiculously punitive Versailles Treaty.

I think you have oversimplified the matter, and it seems you despise the British too. Why is that?

You can despise things your overlords do without loathing the general population can’t you?

[LordRaven]

So you'd have preferred Britain was defeated in WW2?

The better question was would I have preferred fascism defeated in WW2? because it wasnt. The war wasn't about that, it was one genocidal empire against another, which is why Britain was carrying out nazi-esque atrocities AFTER the war ended (see: malaysia, Kenya, Nigeria, etc) and even helped put Nazi's back in power in places like Greece.

Like I said the West is founded on a myth and has to lie to itself to keep believing in it.

That is quite an interesting point of view, but you might do well to remember that it was not one empire against another because you had the French Empire the Soviet Italian and Japanese Empires involved too and Adolph wanted to create his Empire to supercede them all, because he was extremely bitter about defeat in WW1 and the ridiculously punitive Versailles Treaty.

I think you have oversimplified the matter, and it seems you despise the British too. Why is that?

You can despise things your overlords do without loathing the general population can’t you?

Yes of course, but when this country was on the verge of being invaded and conquered and had many who wanted to sue for peace with Adolph we needed a strong leader to get us out of the shit and that is an undeniable fact.

[Lady Murasaki]

I don’t know, I wasn’t there. I’m not as old as you.

[wutang]

That is quite an interesting point of view, but you might do well to remember that it was not one empire against another because you had the French Empire the Soviet Italian and Japanese Empires involved too and Adolph wanted to create his Empire to supercede them all, because he was extremely bitter about defeat in WW1 and the ridiculously punitive Versailles Treaty.

You might do well to remember that Hitler's 2 biggest inspirations were the British Empire and the racist laws of America. In fact most of the evil shit Hitler did (the concentration camps, the eugenics laws, etc) were taken directly from what the British and Americans were already doing - hell, we both carried on doing them AFTER the war was over. To many people around the world the British Empire WERE THE NAZIS!! Our Governments did some sickeningly evil shit before and after that war.

His rise to power was aided and abetted by the British ruling class because he was anti-communist. And while Churchill may not have liked Hitler - purely because he was a threat to the genocidal British Empire - he was a massive fan of Mussolini and saw him as the ideal ruler. The British ruling class were 100% behind fascism as a way to counteract working class power. That made them just as much my enemy as the German ruling elite.

I think you have oversimplified the matter, and it seems you despise the British too. Why is that?

Im a socialist so Im opposed to ALL nationalism. The British ruling class are just as much the enemy as the German ruling class, or the Chinese ruling class, or the Mongolian ruling class... etc.

WW2 was a war between different ruling classes and in no way was the working class gonna win - unless they turned their gun onto their officers and leaders (bullet in Churchill's face to go with the one in Hitlers)