As doctors taper or end opioid prescriptions......

[Fletch]

Again, this is the CDC and the government directing this cutback. There are people that need these drugs and they aren't getting them. That's why they will.go to such lengths to get them and blow their fucking brains out when they dont get them. The doctors, drug companies and insurance companies will provide them. It's the government punishing those that actually need them, because of the abuse by those that don't.

But it is a very effective way of increasing the profits of the CIA drugs business. From Afghanistan protection to driving those requiring them for medication in to the black market. Deep state is behind all of it, it's what makes them money.

[Cactus Jack]

Again, this is the CDC and the government directing this cutback. There are people that need these drugs and they aren't getting them. That's why they will.go to such lengths to get them and blow their fucking brains out when they dont get them. The doctors, drug companies and insurance companies will provide them. It's the government punishing those that actually need them, because of the abuse by those that don't.

The root question is do these people need these opiates because they have medical needs that cannot be answered in any other way or do they need them because they are addicted to them. As a part of that we have to address the fact that in a for profit system continuing to offer expensive temporary relief is more profitable that having a permanent solution. And yes I will allow that as a corollary of that a single payer system will have a bias towards a permanent solution even where there are other consideration that may act as contraindicators

A second and equally valid question is when it has been decided that a person has become addicted to prescription medication and there is a medical need to address that what level of support should be offered - which is a question that applies in an insurance based or single payer system.

A responsible healthcare system should not hand out highly addictive drugs like candy.

[Lady Murasaki]

.... many patients driven to despair, suicide.

It happened slowly. The pain caused by a 1980 back fracture, the result of a tractor-trailer crash, crippled more and more of Jay Lawrence’s body and spirit.

By 2006, the Tennessee native and Navy veteran’s arms and legs were going numb. The excruciating pain reduced him to tears. Multiple surgeries, chiropractic adjustments, and physical therapy didn’t work.

He finally found solace in prescription painkillers – 120 milligrams a day of morphine. A high dose, but it dulled the pain enough for him to take walks with his wife, shop for groceries, even take in a few movies.

But last February, the pain clinic doctor delivered jarring news: He was cutting Lawrence’s daily dosage, first to 90 milligrams then, in short stages, down to 30 milligrams. The doctor said the reduced dosage was in response to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) prescribing guidelines released in 2016 as part of a national anti-opioid push, according to Lawrence’s wife, Meredith.

“The doctor said: ‘You know these guidelines are going to become a law eventually. So we've decided as a group that we're going to take all of our patients down,’” she told Fox News in an interview.
Lawrence’s pain returned with a vengeance. He could barely move or sleep. He soiled his pants, unable to make the bathroom in time, Meredith said.

“It feels like every nerve in my body is on fire,” he told his wife.

Meredith said she and her husband went to their primary care physician and asked for a referral to another pain clinic. They were told it would take a minimum of six weeks.

That was too much for Lawrence. In March, on the day of his next medical appointment, when his painkiller dosage was to be reduced again, he instead went to a nearby park with his wife. And on the very spot where they renewed their wedding vows just two years earlier, they held hands.

He raised a gun to his chest and killed himself.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-opioi ... to-suicide

Well that was the problem then. One size doesn’t fit all. How can a scientific body like medicine be so ignorant?

[Maddog]

.... many patients driven to despair, suicide.

It happened slowly. The pain caused by a 1980 back fracture, the result of a tractor-trailer crash, crippled more and more of Jay Lawrence’s body and spirit.

By 2006, the Tennessee native and Navy veteran’s arms and legs were going numb. The excruciating pain reduced him to tears. Multiple surgeries, chiropractic adjustments, and physical therapy didn’t work.

He finally found solace in prescription painkillers – 120 milligrams a day of morphine. A high dose, but it dulled the pain enough for him to take walks with his wife, shop for groceries, even take in a few movies.

But last February, the pain clinic doctor delivered jarring news: He was cutting Lawrence’s daily dosage, first to 90 milligrams then, in short stages, down to 30 milligrams. The doctor said the reduced dosage was in response to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) prescribing guidelines released in 2016 as part of a national anti-opioid push, according to Lawrence’s wife, Meredith.

“The doctor said: ‘You know these guidelines are going to become a law eventually. So we've decided as a group that we're going to take all of our patients down,’” she told Fox News in an interview.
Lawrence’s pain returned with a vengeance. He could barely move or sleep. He soiled his pants, unable to make the bathroom in time, Meredith said.

“It feels like every nerve in my body is on fire,” he told his wife.

Meredith said she and her husband went to their primary care physician and asked for a referral to another pain clinic. They were told it would take a minimum of six weeks.

That was too much for Lawrence. In March, on the day of his next medical appointment, when his painkiller dosage was to be reduced again, he instead went to a nearby park with his wife. And on the very spot where they renewed their wedding vows just two years earlier, they held hands.

He raised a gun to his chest and killed himself.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-opioi ... to-suicide

Well that was the problem then. One size doesn’t fit all. How can a scientific body like medicine be so ignorant?

Because it's a government run scientific body getting dragged into a "war on drugs" that often claims innocent victims.

[Lady Murasaki]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

[Maddog]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

[Cactus Jack]

.... many patients driven to despair, suicide.

It happened slowly. The pain caused by a 1980 back fracture, the result of a tractor-trailer crash, crippled more and more of Jay Lawrence’s body and spirit.

By 2006, the Tennessee native and Navy veteran’s arms and legs were going numb. The excruciating pain reduced him to tears. Multiple surgeries, chiropractic adjustments, and physical therapy didn’t work.

He finally found solace in prescription painkillers – 120 milligrams a day of morphine. A high dose, but it dulled the pain enough for him to take walks with his wife, shop for groceries, even take in a few movies.

But last February, the pain clinic doctor delivered jarring news: He was cutting Lawrence’s daily dosage, first to 90 milligrams then, in short stages, down to 30 milligrams. The doctor said the reduced dosage was in response to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) prescribing guidelines released in 2016 as part of a national anti-opioid push, according to Lawrence’s wife, Meredith.

“The doctor said: ‘You know these guidelines are going to become a law eventually. So we've decided as a group that we're going to take all of our patients down,’” she told Fox News in an interview.
Lawrence’s pain returned with a vengeance. He could barely move or sleep. He soiled his pants, unable to make the bathroom in time, Meredith said.

“It feels like every nerve in my body is on fire,” he told his wife.

Meredith said she and her husband went to their primary care physician and asked for a referral to another pain clinic. They were told it would take a minimum of six weeks.

That was too much for Lawrence. In March, on the day of his next medical appointment, when his painkiller dosage was to be reduced again, he instead went to a nearby park with his wife. And on the very spot where they renewed their wedding vows just two years earlier, they held hands.

He raised a gun to his chest and killed himself.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-opioi ... to-suicide

Well that was the problem then. One size doesn’t fit all. How can a scientific body like medicine be so ignorant?

Because it's a government run scientific body getting dragged into a "war on drugs" that often claims innocent victims.

There appears to be a lot of speculation and hearsay.

I would think that living with a condition where all cures and mitigation has been tried and all that was left was an increasing reliance on painkillers that, however well managed, always lead to disengagement with loved ones.

The problems caused by opiate abuses go far beyond one death and as tragic as any single anecdote may be the medical evidence says that a less pharmaceutically centred approach to healthcare is in everyone's best interests

[Maddog]

.... many patients driven to despair, suicide.

It happened slowly. The pain caused by a 1980 back fracture, the result of a tractor-trailer crash, crippled more and more of Jay Lawrence’s body and spirit.

By 2006, the Tennessee native and Navy veteran’s arms and legs were going numb. The excruciating pain reduced him to tears. Multiple surgeries, chiropractic adjustments, and physical therapy didn’t work.

He finally found solace in prescription painkillers – 120 milligrams a day of morphine. A high dose, but it dulled the pain enough for him to take walks with his wife, shop for groceries, even take in a few movies.

But last February, the pain clinic doctor delivered jarring news: He was cutting Lawrence’s daily dosage, first to 90 milligrams then, in short stages, down to 30 milligrams. The doctor said the reduced dosage was in response to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) prescribing guidelines released in 2016 as part of a national anti-opioid push, according to Lawrence’s wife, Meredith.

“The doctor said: ‘You know these guidelines are going to become a law eventually. So we've decided as a group that we're going to take all of our patients down,’” she told Fox News in an interview.
Lawrence’s pain returned with a vengeance. He could barely move or sleep. He soiled his pants, unable to make the bathroom in time, Meredith said.

“It feels like every nerve in my body is on fire,” he told his wife.

Meredith said she and her husband went to their primary care physician and asked for a referral to another pain clinic. They were told it would take a minimum of six weeks.

That was too much for Lawrence. In March, on the day of his next medical appointment, when his painkiller dosage was to be reduced again, he instead went to a nearby park with his wife. And on the very spot where they renewed their wedding vows just two years earlier, they held hands.

He raised a gun to his chest and killed himself.


https://www.foxnews.com/health/as-opioi ... to-suicide

Well that was the problem then. One size doesn’t fit all. How can a scientific body like medicine be so ignorant?

Because it's a government run scientific body getting dragged into a "war on drugs" that often claims innocent victims.

There appears to be a lot of speculation and hearsay.

I would think that living with a condition where all cures and mitigation has been tried and all that was left was an increasing reliance on painkillers that, however well managed, always lead to disengagement with loved ones.

The problems caused by opiate abuses go far beyond one death and as tragic as any single anecdote may be the medical evidence says that a less pharmaceutically centred approach to healthcare is in everyone's best interests

Hundreds of suicides are not a single anecdote.

People are suffering and doctors are being prevented from helping.

[Cactus Jack]

Well that was the problem then. One size doesn’t fit all. How can a scientific body like medicine be so ignorant?

Because it's a government run scientific body getting dragged into a "war on drugs" that often claims innocent victims.

There appears to be a lot of speculation and hearsay.

I would think that living with a condition where all cures and mitigation has been tried and all that was left was an increasing reliance on painkillers that, however well managed, always lead to disengagement with loved ones.

The problems caused by opiate abuses go far beyond one death and as tragic as any single anecdote may be the medical evidence says that a less pharmaceutically centred approach to healthcare is in everyone's best interests

Hundreds of suicides are not a single anecdote.

People are suffering and doctors are being prevented from helping.

You detailed one - and that one was open to question.

And the doctors where not 'prevented' from helping - there was nothing to stop them keeping up with the painkillers if that was the medical decision. There was not 'death panel', there was no financial decision to limit cover, there was no government action beyond broad advice motivated by the large increases in the number of number of deaths through accidental overdoses.

In 2016, 63,632 drug overdose deaths occurred in the United States. The age-adjusted rate of overdose deaths increased significantly by 21.5% from 2015 (16.3 (per 100,000) to 2016 (19.8 per 100,000). Opioids—prescription and illicit—are currently the main driver of drug overdose deaths. Opioids were involved in 42,249 overdose deaths in 2016 (66.4% of all drug overdose deaths).

https://www.cdc.gov/drugoverdose/data/statedeaths.html

The job of going from the general - do not prescribe drugs so recklessly - to the specific - cut down the dose for this patient - is made by doctors who, in your anecdote, appear to have made an error or to have failed to provide the level of support the patient needed while his pain management regime was changed.

Stop trying to blame the government for everything, there's such a thing as personal responsibility.

[Lady Murasaki]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

By all means wean people off where possible but everyone’s need isn’t the same. This guy clearly was in too much pain to function. How the doctor couldn’t distinguish between his history and that of others is baffling.

[Maddog]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

By all means wean people off where possible but everyone’s need isn’t the same. This guy clearly was in too much pain to function. How the doctor couldn’t distinguish between his history and that of others is baffling.

The doctors can tell. If you read the article, they are trying to keep the Feds off of their back.

This problem lies with the CDC, not doctors.

[Cactus Jack]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

By all means wean people off where possible but everyone’s need isn’t the same. This guy clearly was in too much pain to function. How the doctor couldn’t distinguish between his history and that of others is baffling.

The doctors can tell. If you read the article, they are trying to keep the Feds off of their back.

This problem lies with the CDC, not doctors.

Sorry did I miss the part where it was the CDC who reduced the patient's prescription?

The doctors made a misjudgement. That's OK it happens and no-one is to blame but it was the doctors who took general guidelines and translated them for this specific patient.

[Lady Murasaki]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

By all means wean people off where possible but everyone’s need isn’t the same. This guy clearly was in too much pain to function. How the doctor couldn’t distinguish between his history and that of others is baffling.

The doctors can tell. If you read the article, they are trying to keep the Feds off of their back.

This problem lies with the CDC, not doctors.

Weren’t they just guidelines? And didn’t the doctors make the decision on how to apply those guidelines?
They can’t pass the buck when they are the ones who have the patients records and so know the patient.

[Maddog]

“We have a terrible problem. We have people committing suicide for no other reason than being forced to stop opioids, pain medication, for chronic pain,” said Thomas Kline, a North Carolina family doctor and former Harvard Medical School program administrator.

“It’s mass hysteria, a witch hunt. It’s one of the worst health care crises in our history,” said Kline, who has 26,000 Twitter followers, and a website where he publishes the names of those who he said committed suicide after having their opioids cut back or eliminated. “There are five to seven million people being tortured on purpose.”

The CDC doesn’t have numbers of those who commit suicide after having their pain medications cut. But most of the doctors who spoke to Fox News said they knew of between one and six patients who took their life after losing access to opioid treatment, and being turned away from other doctors who now see prescription painkillers as a hassle.

[Cactus Jack]

Probably target and budget driven. But they should still be adaptable for individual needs, especially extreme ones like this.

It's not a budget problem. You want prescriptions, you will get them. These drugs are not expensive. Tjere are far more expensive drugs, readily avaialable.

Again, this is about an overdose epidemic that the government is trying to get ahead of. Now we have cancer patients suffering because someone overdosed on illegal fentynal.

By all means wean people off where possible but everyone’s need isn’t the same. This guy clearly was in too much pain to function. How the doctor couldn’t distinguish between his history and that of others is baffling.

The doctors can tell. If you read the article, they are trying to keep the Feds off of their back.

This problem lies with the CDC, not doctors.

Weren’t they just guidelines? And didn’t the doctors make the decision on how to apply those guidelines?
They can’t pass the buck when they are the ones who have the patients records and so know the patient.