NORTH + MIDLANDS GAMMONS TO HAVE PENSIONS CUT

[wutang]

Do you think that stopping benefit handouts to people perfectly capable of working is a punishment?

Yes

What about stopping housing benefit to a person who moves in with another who owns their home
Would that be a punishment?

Everyone should have guaranteed access to a council house so that wouldn't apply.

Housing benefit has nothing to do with whether or not you live on a council house

Its about making sure you have a roof over your head - a guaranteed council house does that better.

Also on the issue of housing benefit:

Council pays rogue landlord £500,000 in housing benefit
Bernard McGowan, who has £30m in property, received money from Brent despite being banned

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... e-landlord

As always the supposed benefit fraud of the poor is a drop in the ocean compared to the benefit fraud carried out by the wealthy and their enablers in power.

[wutang]

And worth noting it was pre Jeremy Corbyn Labour that it was agreed by all (neoliberal) parties.

As night follows day Labour will continue to be a massive disappointment to the working class.. regardless of who is in charge

Labour manifesto ‘would keep £7bn of planned Tory welfare cuts’
Analysis by Resolution Foundation shows Jeremy Corbyn’s party would go ahead with most of George Osborne’s planned benefits reductions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... foundation

[Cannydc]

And worth noting it was pre Jeremy Corbyn Labour that it was agreed by all (neoliberal) parties.

As night follows day Labour will continue to be a massive disappointment to the working class.. regardless of who is in charge

Labour manifesto ‘would keep £7bn of planned Tory welfare cuts’
Analysis by Resolution Foundation shows Jeremy Corbyn’s party would go ahead with most of George Osborne’s planned benefits reductions

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... foundation

"according to an analysis by the Resolution Foundation thinktank."

I would tend to be wary about Labour policies not yet announced, but being forecast by an organisation led by the former Conservative MP David Willetts.

However, they shine a light on Labour's predicament. May is already throwing "Labour's thousand billion pounds of extra spending pledges" around, as if it actually exists. Everything that Labour plan to spend will need to be costed. And that includes reversing Tory benefit cuts. You can throw a far-left agenda all over the internet, but in the end the people will not be fooled - and if Labour don't get elected we are in for 5 more years of austerity, cuts and anything else the Tories can do to line their pockets. Including the NHS sell off to US companies.

[MungoBrush]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

[Jon]

You could have phrased this as it actually is: Tories being cunts. Instead, you sunk to calling people gammons and gloating that some old people are going to be poorer

[Cannydc]

You could have phrased this as it actually is: Tories being cunts. Instead, you sunk to calling people gammons and gloating that some old people are going to be poorer

You mean like

"yet another sign of the cruel incompetence of this Tory shower."

As per the OP ???

[McAz]

You could have phrased this as it actually is: Tories being cunts. Instead, you sunk to calling people gammons and gloating that some old people are going to be poorer

You mean like

"yet another sign of the cruel incompetence of this Tory shower."

As per the OP ???

The endgame is not working out well for the right - we must expect these emotional outbursts.

[Fletch]

It was agreed by all parties that sorting out the ridiculously complicated and costly to run benefits system was a good idea.

The reforms all parties agreed on turned out to be even more costly and did nothing but cause misery and heartache for those it targeted.

Funny how they can't afford the 'costly benefit system' but can afford tax cuts for corporations.

And worth noting it was pre Jeremy Corbyn Labour that it was agreed by all (neoliberal) parties.

So you would prefer a horribly complicated system, where poor people lose out because they can't manage their way through it ?

What a strange cove you are - one minute you care deeply, the next you don't give a stuff for the poor.

No Labour politician ever suggested cuts - with the possible exception of the pseudo Tory Frank Field.

You believe the claim it would be cheaper to administrate but results to date have shown that is simply not true.

Benefit claimants live day to day lives due to the pittance paid in this country. By having different benefits paid on different days, they are not left for long periods of time without any income. Something that universal credit stipulates, not least when first claiming it.

Like all things from this government, it's all about cutting the amount paid to claimants and lining some private pockets whilst they're at it. The UC system didn't come cheap but its been proved it doesn't work. Never mind, some IT outfit made money...

[LordRaven]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

[Grafenwalder]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

Indeed it is as UN special rapporteur discovered on his investigation into UK poverty, and his findings were damning as he described "ministers in a state of denial" and concluded the poverty issue could be solved at very little cost.

It is the mentality that has informed many of the reforms that has brought the most misery and wrought the most harm to the fabric of British society. British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach apparently designed to instill discipline where it is least useful, to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping with today’s world.

The experience of the United Kingdom, especially since 2010, underscores the conclusion that poverty is a political choice. Austerity could easily have spared the poor, if the political will had existed to do so. Resources were available to the Treasury at the last budget that could have transformed the situation of millions of people living in poverty, but the political choice was made to fund tax cuts for the wealthy instead.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pag ... 1&LangID=E

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

[LordRaven]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

Indeed it is as UN special rapporteur discovered on his investigation into UK poverty, and his findings were damning as he described "ministers in a state of denial" and concluded the poverty issue could be solved at very little cost.

It is the mentality that has informed many of the reforms that has brought the most misery and wrought the most harm to the fabric of British society. British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach apparently designed to instill discipline where it is least useful, to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping with today’s world.

The experience of the United Kingdom, especially since 2010, underscores the conclusion that poverty is a political choice. Austerity could easily have spared the poor, if the political will had existed to do so. Resources were available to the Treasury at the last budget that could have transformed the situation of millions of people living in poverty, but the political choice was made to fund tax cuts for the wealthy instead.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pag ... 1&LangID=E

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

Theresa May & Co have a lot to answer for, people have died because of their vile policies and it demonstrates that they clearly look upon the needy with nothing but contempt if they think the pittance they provide for the less well off is fair.

I wish someone would start a petition to get the necessary 100,000 plus signatures so that a debate can be had in the HOC to send IDS, JRM, Bojo and McVey to some poor area to live off Universal Credit (Only) for a month or two. They would not survive and it might wake the fuckers up.

It is a National Disgrace but they will not address it unless people kick up a real stink. I am glad that the UN has done what it has done but I do wish it would go further and bring in a resolution demanding action from our useless Government.

[Cannydc]

It was agreed by all parties that sorting out the ridiculously complicated and costly to run benefits system was a good idea.

The reforms all parties agreed on turned out to be even more costly and did nothing but cause misery and heartache for those it targeted.

Funny how they can't afford the 'costly benefit system' but can afford tax cuts for corporations.

And worth noting it was pre Jeremy Corbyn Labour that it was agreed by all (neoliberal) parties.

So you would prefer a horribly complicated system, where poor people lose out because they can't manage their way through it ?

What a strange cove you are - one minute you care deeply, the next you don't give a stuff for the poor.

No Labour politician ever suggested cuts - with the possible exception of the pseudo Tory Frank Field.

You believe the claim it would be cheaper to administrate but results to date have shown that is simply not true.

Benefit claimants live day to day lives due to the pittance paid in this country. By having different benefits paid on different days, they are not left for long periods of time without any income. Something that universal credit stipulates, not least when first claiming it.

Like all things from this government, it's all about cutting the amount paid to claimants and lining some private pockets whilst they're at it. The UC system didn't come cheap but its been proved it doesn't work. Never mind, some IT outfit made money...

Of course it SHOULD be simpler, and therefore cheaper to administer.

As to whether it will ever be so, who knows ?

The point is that flaws have been pointed out, but little or nothing done to address them. And until that happens, there's little chance of it working properly.

[MungoBrush]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

But what you have just said is not related to this thread
This thread is about some people getting pension credits who are not pensioners
Therefore they are not entitled to pension credits
And the proposal is that if they are not pensioners, they should not get pension credits.

If someone in a family becomes unemployed, then that person, and that person alone is entitled to JSA
The whole family doesn't become entitled to JSA.

Personally I can't see why anyone is upset about it

[Grafenwalder]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

Indeed it is as UN special rapporteur discovered on his investigation into UK poverty, and his findings were damning as he described "ministers in a state of denial" and concluded the poverty issue could be solved at very little cost.

It is the mentality that has informed many of the reforms that has brought the most misery and wrought the most harm to the fabric of British society. British compassion for those who are suffering has been replaced by a punitive, mean-spirited, and often callous approach apparently designed to instill discipline where it is least useful, to impose a rigid order on the lives of those least capable of coping with today’s world.

The experience of the United Kingdom, especially since 2010, underscores the conclusion that poverty is a political choice. Austerity could easily have spared the poor, if the political will had existed to do so. Resources were available to the Treasury at the last budget that could have transformed the situation of millions of people living in poverty, but the political choice was made to fund tax cuts for the wealthy instead.

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pag ... 1&LangID=E

phpBB [video]

phpBB [video]

Theresa May & Co have a lot to answer for, people have died because of their vile policies and it demonstrates that they clearly look upon the needy with nothing but contempt if they think the pittance they provide for the less well off is fair.

I wish someone would start a petition to get the necessary 100,000 plus signatures so that a debate can be had in the HOC to send IDS, JRM, Bojo and McVey to some poor area to live off Universal Credit (Only) for a month or two. They would not survive and it might wake the fuckers up.

It is a National Disgrace but they will not address it unless people kick up a real stink. I am glad that the UN has done what it has done but I do wish it would go further and bring in a resolution demanding action from our useless Government.

They're totally detached from all reality though. As Prof. Alston said, "ministers are in a state of denial". They don't want to know as they are more concerned with giving tax cuts to the wealthy. Their inhumanity just beggars belief. Only a few minutes ago i'm watching news on an elderly French lady in a home being hounded by the HO over citizenship. She's 94 years old for fucks sake.

This country has become a place of hate and oppression.

[LordRaven]

I really don't understand what people's problem is with this

To get child benefit - you have to have children
To get DLA - you have to be disabled
To get jobseekers allowance - you have to be unemployed

To get pension credit - you have to be a pensioner

What's wrong with that?

Oh there is nothing wrong with what you have said, but there is something very very wrong with the pathetic dismally small amount of money people get and the hoops they have to jump through to actually get anything.

People are dead because they had no money, no food and couldn't afford to heat their homes.

It is a national disgrace and that is an undeniable fact.

But what you have just said is not related to this thread
This thread is about some people getting pension credits who are not pensioners
Therefore they are not entitled to pension credits
And the proposal is that if they are not pensioners, they should not get pension credits.

If someone in a family becomes unemployed, then that person, and that person alone is entitled to JSA
The whole family doesn't become entitled to JSA.

Personally I can't see why anyone is upset about it

Apologies MB, however the fact is I am very very unimpressed with the way that the poor and needy are shat on and treated with contempt by this government and I wish to air my views on the matter and here seems apt --not that it will have an effect but it's good to vent one's spleen.