Christchurch mosque shootings: Several dead after New Zealan

[Grafenwalder]

Well i don't know exactly who you apportion blame to over UK's immigration as you didn't say but if EU, then you'd be wrong.

The EU is to blame because we can't control immigration from the EU and it is/was used as an excuse for not doing anything about it at all and even if the majority of migration is from outside the EU that is not a reason to stay in the EU where we can't control it.

Read that blog post..all of it. The facts are glaringly obvious. Both Tory and Labour governments ignored EU rulings. Farage and co perpetuated the myth and Brexiters swallowed it because that was the narrative they wanted to hear. Brexit was born of government obfuscation and, it has to be said, lies, regarding its immigration obligations under EU legislation - let alone handing UKIP carte blanche justification for their bare-faced lie about Turkish migration. If government had come clean, we may simply have had an election to clear away the offending party, rather than a referendum with an outcome based on misinformation.

Anyway, now i'm the one guilty of going off thread topic so that's all i have to say on it. I suggest you read that link.

[Dinkydoobie]

Read that blog post..all of it.

What do I need to understand about these two points that I apparently don't already comprehend?

By respecting all EU rules, net immigration of non-British citizens to the UK could have been cut by a stunning 82% in 2004-11 and also rather significantly since then. It was a UK decision not to control immigration.

EU rules allow unlimited free movement of people only for a duration up to three months. For longer periods, only workers, the very rich and students can stay in another EU country.

In fact it even goes on to somewhat prove my point. That the government used free movement of EU workers to not do anything about migration.

"The UK Government’s white paper does not even mention these facts, but seems to blame EU mobility rules for the surge in net immigration since the mid-1990s. This is simply incorrect."

[Grafenwalder]

How a New Zealand farmer has responded.

I was a victim of credit card fraud a few weeks ago. Could you be a good sport and turn all of your credit cards in to prevent more credit card fraud?

Many thanks in advance.

He talks about his reasons why here. As an American i imagine it's difficult for you to comprehend just as it is for many of us Brits/Europeans over the ooc gun culture in US where mass shootings appear to be your way of culling the population.

Switzerland is often quoted by the pro-gun lobbyists but there's a vast difference between the 'psyche' of American and Swiss. Many Swiss do own a gun...because after doing military service they are allowed to keep the gun at home if they wish to (it's not compulsory). BUT they are not allowed to keep ammo. Killings by gun in Switzerland are extremely rare and the last mass shooting was 18 years ago in 2001. So far US has had 62 mass shootings.....in just 79 days.

The Swiss keep ammo, and we have not had 62 mass shootings, unless you use a made up definition of mass shootings.

And I know that you think it's the wild west over here, but in 56 years I've never seen a human being shoot at another human.

Yes i should have said separately. It's not allowed to be kept with the gun. https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/society/be ... s/43573832

According to this it's 62 up to now for 2019 and as it's a US site i expect it to be valid? https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[Grafenwalder]

Read that blog post..all of it.

What do I need to understand about these two points that I apparently don't already comprehend?

By respecting all EU rules, net immigration of non-British citizens to the UK could have been cut by a stunning 82% in 2004-11 and also rather significantly since then. It was a UK decision not to control immigration.

Exactly that ^^^ if you want it in a nutshell. But uncontrolled migration to UK was not the fault of EU..it was successive UK governments who did not want to apply EU law on it. They could have done, but ignored it. Farage and Brexit lied to you yet you still want to believe it was "all the fault of the wicked EU..not us".

[Grafenwalder]

I can assure you that the gun this Swiss girl is holding, shoots real bullets, and she has never been in the army.

They don't need be in the army to own or fire a gun. Every Sunday in Switzerland it's common to hear the incessant crack of rifle fire at ranges. Swiss just have a totally different outlook on guns as Americans and comparing the two is chalk 'n cheese, polar opposites. Your pro-gun lobbyists should try another country - maybe your next door neighbour, Canada, who i believe has a pretty high gun ownership?

[Dinkydoobie]

uncontrolled migration to UK was not the fault of EU..it was successive UK governments who did not want to apply EU law on it.

It isn't EU law that allows us to restrict non-eu nationals from migrating to the UK it's domestic law but the free movement of EU nationals was used as an excuse by the government for not restricting it - your own article shows the UK government blaming free movement of EU nationals for the surge in migration in the 90's and why would they do that? Because there is nothing they could do to stop it. And how exactly do you propose they could go about reducing migration whilst free movement exists for EU nationals?

Lets stop all the brown people from coming to the UK! that would go down like a lead balloon.

[Grafenwalder]

uncontrolled migration to UK was not the fault of EU..it was successive UK governments who did not want to apply EU law on it.

It isn't EU law that allows us to restrict non-eu nationals from migrating to the UK it's domestic law but the free movement of EU nationals was used as an excuse by the government for not restricting it - your own article shows the UK government blaming free movement of EU nationals for the surge in migration in the 90's and why would they do that? Because there is nothing they could do to stop it. And how exactly do you propose they could go about reducing migration whilst free movement exists for EU nationals?

Lets stop all the brown people from coming to the UK! that would go down like a lead balloon.

That was the quote taken from the Brexit white paper which was what the Bruegel blog questions and clearly states is misleading! You were lied to about the EU. It tells you in that blog how it could have been controlled but neither government wanted to as it suited the needs of both. As to your last point, i seem to remember Brexiters having orgasms over Farages infamous poster which indicated exactly that! Not to mention Johnson and his scaremongering over Turkey.

Anyway..way off thread topic so i've nothing else to add on this unless you want to open another thread.

[MungoBrush]

I was beginning to wonder what this thread was about - so back with the actual topic, here is a real stateswoman speaking.

Good girl

She's an absolute legend tbf.

It's worth reading the many tweets praising her, lots from admiring Americans saying "if only we had a leader like her" and "please can we have your PM". I agree, she's certainly one hell of a woman and a credit to her country. No empty promises or weasel words. Delivers on what she says and to be law within 10 days.

So she can just make a law on her own? No need for any legislative action?

New Zealand is just catching up to Australia.
Australia banned all semi-automatic weapons after the Port Arthur massacre in 1996
There hasn't been a similar incident since then.

[Grafenwalder]

Ardern’s response to Christchurch has put other leaders to shame – but not for its compassion alone

Cometh the hour, cometh the woman. Jacinda Ardern won her spurs last week with her response to the Christchurch atrocity. But the world’s praise for her eloquence and compassion missed the point.

Ardern was different. She fought from the start like a real politician, scorning the killer, attacking racism and slapping back at Turkish president Erdogan’s revolting election propaganda – which used the murderer’s own video – then hitting out at US president Trump. And insisting that New Zealand’s gun laws would change forever.

That was the measure of her. Humanity came armed with political leadership. And what a sorry lot Ardern showed our own hapless “leaders” to be.

Most of them have reacted to mass murders with instant cliches of sorrow and endless waffle about “terror”, and then operatic – and often inappropriate – praise for security forces who have in most cases failed to prevent the crime from taking place. In Christchurch, the cops appear to have driven the murderer off the road before he moved to a third mosque.

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ja ... 33156.html

[Grafenwalder]

[Grafenwalder]

Two minutes silence throughout New Zealand tomorrow.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, community leaders, and about 30 foreign dignitaries have been invited to the event by the Muslim community to be part of the official proceedings.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christ ... ed-to-know

[MungoBrush]

Maybe this tragedy wouldn't have happenned if New Zealand had followed Australia's lead and banned these weapons 23 years ago.

[Cactus Jack]

Maybe this tragedy wouldn't have happenned if New Zealand had followed Australia's lead and banned these weapons 23 years ago.

I am Cactus Jack and I approve this post.

[Dinkydoobie]

That was the quote taken from the Brexit white paper which was what the Bruegel blog questions and clearly states is misleading! You were lied to about the EU. It tells you in that blog how it could have been controlled but neither government wanted to as it suited the needs of both. As to your last point, i seem to remember Brexiters having orgasms over Farages infamous poster which indicated exactly that! Not to mention Johnson and his scaremongering over Turkey.

Anyway..way off thread topic so i've nothing else to add on this unless you want to open another thread.

I haven't been lied to. If you'd ever seen any of my posts on DS then you should know how familiar i am with immigration statistics but uncontrollable EU immigration is used as an excuse to not do anything so if we leave the EU then they haven't got any excuses to fall back on when people ask for controlled immigration and they don't do anything about it. They can't, as the paper you posted points out, blame EU migration and as a result not do anything.

[Maddog]

I can assure you that the gun this Swiss girl is holding, shoots real bullets, and she has never been in the army.

They don't need be in the army to own or fire a gun. Every Sunday in Switzerland it's common to hear the incessant crack of rifle fire at ranges. Swiss just have a totally different outlook on guns as Americans and comparing the two is chalk 'n cheese, polar opposites. Your pro-gun lobbyists should try another country - maybe your next door neighbour, Canada, who i believe has a pretty high gun ownership?

I never said they had to be in the army (you did), nor did I even bring up Switzerland.