Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:14 pm

McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:Hunger and poverty can never be a child's fault.


Tell Art

It was intended for Art...

...and all those who want to "take our country back" at the expense of the poor.


Agreed. I feel sorry for families with young kids driven to such dire situations by a truly uncaring bunch of rich arseholes in government.
And likewise I feel sorry for the disadvantaged, old, infirm, and the homeless. This government don't care at all if they all die.

Tbh I'm more angry at those who claim they care for the poor but support this...

Image


...than I am for it itself.

The proles and toffs clubbing together, who would have thought it?
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Stooo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:36 pm

LordRaven wrote:The proles and toffs clubbing together, who would have thought it?


Yeah, funny how that works out.

Not really though, it's usually Masonic.

Ask me anything...
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:52 pm

Stooo wrote:
LordRaven wrote:The proles and toffs clubbing together, who would have thought it?


Yeah, funny how that works out.

Not really though, it's usually Masonic.

Ask me anything...


How can racist commoners have anything in common with the landed gentry?
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Stooo » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:56 pm

LordRaven wrote:
Stooo wrote:
LordRaven wrote:The proles and toffs clubbing together, who would have thought it?


Yeah, funny how that works out.

Not really though, it's usually Masonic.

Ask me anything...


How can racist commoners have anything in common with the landed gentry?


All equal on the square.

I was Master of a sister Lodge to Nige's many moons ago, we met at Mark Masons' Hall in St James's. He was/is a member of True Love and Unity, an ex India and Pakistan Lodge that had Kipling as a member IIRC.
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:08 pm

Stooo wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Stooo wrote:
LordRaven wrote:The proles and toffs clubbing together, who would have thought it?


Yeah, funny how that works out.

Not really though, it's usually Masonic.

Ask me anything...


How can racist commoners have anything in common with the landed gentry?


All equal on the square.

I was Master of a sister Lodge to Nige's many moons ago, we met at Mark Masons' Hall in St James's. He was/is a member of True Love and Unity, an ex India and Pakistan Lodge that had Kipling as a member IIRC.

:yikes:
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 4:56 pm

wutang wrote:
Fletch wrote:JC is not a neoliberal. He advocates nationalisation, public services and serving the many, not the few. A change of direction is required, we can't carry on on the same course of taking from the many to give to the few. I support that aim and therefore him.


Nationalisation is not the panacea you think it is. Worker owned co-operatives would be better but even then you are still beholden to the logic of capital - i.e market forces. Plenty of nationalised industries have enforced wage restraints and other anti-worker measures in order to make the business 'profitable' and even workers-coperatives fall into this trap - "self-managed exploitation"

The problem with focusing on "neo-liberalism" is that it fails to recognise, or even attempts to hide, the fact that capitalism can fuck us in many different ways. It was fucking just as easily long before "neo-liberalism" came about.


I meant nationalisation of public services rather than wholesale nationalisation. Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS removed from CCG's and returned to public ownership/management and so on. I agree with co-operatives being better for many things but public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:00 pm

Fletch wrote:
wutang wrote:
Fletch wrote:JC is not a neoliberal. He advocates nationalisation, public services and serving the many, not the few. A change of direction is required, we can't carry on on the same course of taking from the many to give to the few. I support that aim and therefore him.


Nationalisation is not the panacea you think it is. Worker owned co-operatives would be better but even then you are still beholden to the logic of capital - i.e market forces. Plenty of nationalised industries have enforced wage restraints and other anti-worker measures in order to make the business 'profitable' and even workers-coperatives fall into this trap - "self-managed exploitation"

The problem with focusing on "neo-liberalism" is that it fails to recognise, or even attempts to hide, the fact that capitalism can fuck us in many different ways. It was fucking just as easily long before "neo-liberalism" came about.


I meant nationalisation of public services rather than wholesale nationalisation. Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS removed from CCG's and returned to public ownership/management and so on. I agree with co-operatives being better for many things but public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.


You sound confused, but being Felch you always are.

I agree with Wutang, Nationalisation only leads to a "Big firm, they can afford" it mentality amongst workers who will get shop stewards to make huge wage demands that make the businesses unprofitable and, lacking money for R&D, turn out shite obsolete products.
The cooperative idea and making all workers Partners-like John Lewis--would be far more sound, they would all have a vested interest in ensuring they can compete
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Cannydc » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:28 pm

LordRaven wrote:
Fletch wrote:
wutang wrote:
Fletch wrote:JC is not a neoliberal. He advocates nationalisation, public services and serving the many, not the few. A change of direction is required, we can't carry on on the same course of taking from the many to give to the few. I support that aim and therefore him.


Nationalisation is not the panacea you think it is. Worker owned co-operatives would be better but even then you are still beholden to the logic of capital - i.e market forces. Plenty of nationalised industries have enforced wage restraints and other anti-worker measures in order to make the business 'profitable' and even workers-coperatives fall into this trap - "self-managed exploitation"

The problem with focusing on "neo-liberalism" is that it fails to recognise, or even attempts to hide, the fact that capitalism can fuck us in many different ways. It was fucking just as easily long before "neo-liberalism" came about.


I meant nationalisation of public services rather than wholesale nationalisation. Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS removed from CCG's and returned to public ownership/management and so on. I agree with co-operatives being better for many things but public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.


You sound confused, but being Felch you always are.

I agree with Wutang, Nationalisation only leads to a "Big firm, they can afford" it mentality amongst workers who will get shop stewards to make huge wage demands that make the businesses unprofitable and, lacking money for R&D, turn out shite obsolete products.
The cooperative idea and making all workers Partners-like John Lewis--would be far more sound, they would all have a vested interest in ensuring they can compete


My ideal would be the German model of industrial relations.
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:24 pm

Cannydc wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Fletch wrote:
wutang wrote:
Fletch wrote:JC is not a neoliberal. He advocates nationalisation, public services and serving the many, not the few. A change of direction is required, we can't carry on on the same course of taking from the many to give to the few. I support that aim and therefore him.


Nationalisation is not the panacea you think it is. Worker owned co-operatives would be better but even then you are still beholden to the logic of capital - i.e market forces. Plenty of nationalised industries have enforced wage restraints and other anti-worker measures in order to make the business 'profitable' and even workers-coperatives fall into this trap - "self-managed exploitation"

The problem with focusing on "neo-liberalism" is that it fails to recognise, or even attempts to hide, the fact that capitalism can fuck us in many different ways. It was fucking just as easily long before "neo-liberalism" came about.


I meant nationalisation of public services rather than wholesale nationalisation. Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS removed from CCG's and returned to public ownership/management and so on. I agree with co-operatives being better for many things but public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.


You sound confused, but being Felch you always are.

I agree with Wutang, Nationalisation only leads to a "Big firm, they can afford" it mentality amongst workers who will get shop stewards to make huge wage demands that make the businesses unprofitable and, lacking money for R&D, turn out shite obsolete products.
The cooperative idea and making all workers Partners-like John Lewis--would be far more sound, they would all have a vested interest in ensuring they can compete


My ideal would be the German model of industrial relations.

It works
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:27 pm

LordRaven wrote:
Fletch wrote:
wutang wrote:
Fletch wrote:JC is not a neoliberal. He advocates nationalisation, public services and serving the many, not the few. A change of direction is required, we can't carry on on the same course of taking from the many to give to the few. I support that aim and therefore him.


Nationalisation is not the panacea you think it is. Worker owned co-operatives would be better but even then you are still beholden to the logic of capital - i.e market forces. Plenty of nationalised industries have enforced wage restraints and other anti-worker measures in order to make the business 'profitable' and even workers-coperatives fall into this trap - "self-managed exploitation"

The problem with focusing on "neo-liberalism" is that it fails to recognise, or even attempts to hide, the fact that capitalism can fuck us in many different ways. It was fucking just as easily long before "neo-liberalism" came about.


I meant nationalisation of public services rather than wholesale nationalisation. Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS removed from CCG's and returned to public ownership/management and so on. I agree with co-operatives being better for many things but public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.


You sound confused, but being Felch you always are.

I agree with Wutang, Nationalisation only leads to a "Big firm, they can afford" it mentality amongst workers who will get shop stewards to make huge wage demands that make the businesses unprofitable and, lacking money for R&D, turn out shite obsolete products.
The cooperative idea and making all workers Partners-like John Lewis--would be far more sound, they would all have a vested interest in ensuring they can compete

You sound confused but being Raven you always are.
Fletch didn't say anything about manufacturing selling exporting importing etc.
He said ...... Utilises, public transport, infrastructure, the NHS ............. public services should be publicly owned and operated, as it used to be not so long ago, including schools.

Which of those would become unprofitable businesses trying to flog obsolete products?
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby LordRaven » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:28 pm

Any idea who messed the quotes up? :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :ooer:
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:33 pm

LordRaven wrote:Any idea who messed the quotes up? :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :more beer: :ooer:

I don't see any messed up quotes but I see you fucking sidetracking as usual.
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:13 am

‘Every day we see really hungry kids. They shouldn’t be living like this’

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/children ... ailsignout
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Cannydc » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:50 am

Rolluplostinspace wrote:‘Every day we see really hungry kids. They shouldn’t be living like this’

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/children ... ailsignout


A shocking read, quite distressing in fact.

A few years ago if this problem arose, it would be blamed on 'feckless single mothers' or 'dole bludger parents who spend benefits on booze, baccy and bingo'. That patently isn't the case now, instead we have parents working, but on minimum wage zero hours contracts unable to afford the simple needs of food, fuel and a roof over their heads.

And when school holidays come along there's childcare and extra meals to budget for. The whole equation becomes just too much for many.

What an utterly despairing, empty way to live. And what a disgrace this country has become, preferring tax cuts for the rich alongside billions in naked political bribes to actually ensuring that our poorest are helped in meaningful ways that take of some of the pressure of the daily grind.

We should, and must, do so much better.
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Re: Fear that three million UK children will go hungry

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:16 pm

Cannydc wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:‘Every day we see really hungry kids. They shouldn’t be living like this’

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/children ... ailsignout


A shocking read, quite distressing in fact.

A few years ago if this problem arose, it would be blamed on 'feckless single mothers' or 'dole bludger parents who spend benefits on booze, baccy and bingo'. That patently isn't the case now, instead we have parents working, but on minimum wage zero hours contracts unable to afford the simple needs of food, fuel and a roof over their heads.

And when school holidays come along there's childcare and extra meals to budget for. The whole equation becomes just too much for many.

What an utterly despairing, empty way to live. And what a disgrace this country has become, preferring tax cuts for the rich alongside billions in naked political bribes to actually ensuring that our poorest are helped in meaningful ways that take of some of the pressure of the daily grind.

We should, and must, do so much better.

It's about to get a lot worse.
We are about to be Americanised on a scale never before thought possible.
The low/no tax low wages few if any rights for people is going to hit this country in a shocking manner.
No benefits nothing that isn't in private hands slashed pensions reduced health care astronomical energy prices.
Taking the country back means we will be the poorest people in western Europe.
The country .... the country is the fucking people not the scenery or the money it's the people but not the way it's talked about any longer.
There is going to be massive civil unrest and it will achieve nothing.
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