European Jewish population 1930

[Fletch]

By and large ethnicity is just self-identifying bollox - like nationhood, just another a vehicle to divide people and set them against each other. Jews included. The Welsh included.

The problem here is that Jews are still gonna suffer at the hands of antisemitism whether or not they 'self-identify' as Jewish. The reason the Jewish community developed such a close-knit, cultural community was precisely one of self-protection and self preservation.

We get the same problem when liberals say "I dont see colour", or, "we should stop talking about race", try telling that to the black people suffering at the hands of racial injustice and inequality.

Its easy to take a 'its all bollocks" attitude when it doesn't effect you personally.

One can't change their race but they can choose to belong to a religion.

Why aren't Muslims so revered, protected and respected like Jews are/demand to be?

[wutang]

When the Jews were driven out of Israel two thousand years ago they numbered about 9 million and that 9 million headed for Europe.

This is bollocks.

The entire population of Palestine/Judea 2,000 years ago wasn't even 9 million, at most it was a mere fraction of that, and even if it was the idea that THE ENTIRE POPULATION just got up and left is fucking ludicrous; the social, economic and political ramification of such an occurrence would have been unimaginable - it would be the equivalent of the entire population of Italy just leaving and going to live in the rest of the EU today.

[wutang]

One can't change their race but they can choose to belong to a religion.

Try telling that to anti-Semites.

In fact the very concept of race as we know it started in medieval Iberia (Spain/Portigal) during the reconquista as the Christain didnt believe the Jews (and to some extent Muslims) were really converting. The idea was that while yes the Jews were activily converting and living their lives in entirely Christian ways their blood is still Jewish and therefore they can never change - hence they expelled them.

Same happened during the Holocaust - yeah your family may have been christian going back generations but if there was just one distant Jewish ancestor at some point then guess what.... gas chamber for you .

[McAz]

By and large ethnicity is just self-identifying bollox - like nationhood, just another a vehicle to divide people and set them against each other. Jews included. The Welsh included.

The problem here is that Jews are still gonna suffer at the hands of antisemitism whether or not they 'self-identify' as Jewish. The reason the Jewish community developed such a close-knit, cultural community was precisely one of self-protection and self preservation.

We get the same problem when liberals say "I dont see colour", or, "we should stop talking about race", try telling that to the black people suffering at the hands of racial injustice and inequality.

Its easy to take a 'its all bollocks" attitude when it doesn't effect you personally.

It does affect me personally, I find "Englishness" repellent when I am identified with its supposed superior culture and civilisation which is lauded over and sometimes forced upon others. Christianity similarly. Any "ethnicity" come to that.

Michael Caine once said that "Cockneys were the first blacks in England" - he went on to say, “We didn’t have black people; we had working-class people. And so what your experience was when you were growing up was the same for me". As someone raised in the poor Jewish ghetto of London's East End it is something I can identify with.

Later in Africa I recall being made oh too aware of the "benevolent" English legacy - and I've seen nothing in my life where these arbitrary groupings of race, nation, religion etc have made things better.

I say again, By and large ethnicity is just self-identifying bollox.

[Fletch]

One can't change their race but they can choose to belong to a religion.

Try telling that to anti-Semites.

In fact the very concept of race as we know it started in medieval Iberia (Spain/Portigal) during the reconquista as the Christain didnt believe the Jews (and to some extent Muslims) were really converting. The idea was that while yes the Jews were activily converting and living their lives in entirely Christian ways their blood is still Jewish and therefore they can never change - hence they expelled them.

Same happened during the Holocaust - yeah your family may have been christian going back generations but if there was just one distant Jewish ancestor at some point then guess what.... gas chamber for you .

No religion is a race. Never has been, despite the propaganda, and never will be.

Is a black Jew the same race as a white Jew?

[wutang]

Similar case in America with race.

The one drop rule was law in some parts: all it took was one black relative, even if it was a great-great-great Grandfather for you to be classified as black. Your entire family tree with the exception of this one distant relative could have been white, and you can be as white as snow, but that one drop of non-white blood expels you from the white race.

The concept of race is just as much a social construct but, again, this doesn't discount the very real effect racism and bigotry can have on people

And one with religion - plenty of cases of non-Muslims killed for being seen as Muslims by racist Americans. IIRC a Sikh and a Hindu not too long ago were killed for being seen as 'ISIS/Arab terrorists'. They may have choosen to be non-Muslim yet were still killed by anti-Muslim bigotry for having brown skin.

[wutang]

Is a black Jew the same race as a white Jew?

Race by its very nature is multi-layered

[Fletch]

Is a black Jew the same race as a white Jew?

Race by its very nature is multi-layered

How?

No-one ever answers that question but some still claim Jewish is a race. It's not. No religion is.

[Rolluplostinspace]

When the Jews were driven out of Israel two thousand years ago they numbered about 9 million and that 9 million headed for Europe.

This is bollocks.

The entire population of Palestine/Judea 2,000 years ago wasn't even 9 million, at most it was a mere fraction of that, and even if it was the idea that THE ENTIRE POPULATION just got up and left is fucking ludicrous; the social, economic and political ramification of such an occurrence would have been unimaginable - it would be the equivalent of the entire population of Italy just leaving and going to live in the rest of the EU today.

Sorry that was a genuine mistake.
I was thinking og the European number in 1930 to answer Arts original question as I was typing.
It is estimated to be around 750,000 to maybe a million.

[art0hur0moh]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Io_(mythology)

lets see if You can figure it out? who did Jacob fight in the hills before entering the lands of His fore Fathers?

[Rolluplostinspace]

9.5 million Art .... now what?

500k in germany, and most where Christian only identified as jewish because a grand parent was jewish. 130k in London and those are the two highest populations in Europe! for there to be nine million there need to be at least 30 countries with a population of 100k.

census! Canny can post a copy of the numbers! since I asking in verifiable links

There was a guy on youtube who showed genuine newspapers from the early 1900's up to the start of WW2 and there were numerous claims of 6 million Jews being moved, harassed or some other form of harm/in danger from different years and in different papers. It was fascinating to watch him go though these old papers (from a library?) and reading the articles claiming 6 million each time. Can't find it now but it wasn't that long ago. North East or maybe Irish guy, quite strong accent.

You'll find the link that youtube on the following linked page but guess what .... it no longer works.
List of Pre-Nuremberg References to “Six Million Jews,” Starting in 1850
1850 – British Society for the Propagation of the Gospel among the Jews (ed.), The Jewish Herald and Record of Christian Effort for the Spiritual Good of God’s Ancient People, Vol. V, Aylott & Jones, London, August 1850, page 216: “there are now living about 6,000,000 Israelites” in the world (reprinted in the Christian Spectator 1850, page 496).
1866 – Brigham Young, The Latter-Day Saints’ Millennial Star, Vol. 28, London 1866, p. 677: “there are but about 6,000,000 Jews in the world”
1869 – The New York Times, 12 September 1869, page 8: “there are now living about 6,000,000 Israelites, nearly one half of whom live in Europe.” Repeated on 31 October 1869.
1889 – The New York Times, 10 February 1889: “How Many Jews Are There? […] the lowest [estimate] that could be entertained, stated the number of the ubiquitous race at 6,000,000.”
1891 – The New York Times, 26 January 1891: “Russia’s population of five million to six million Jews […] about six million persecuted and miserable wretches.”
1891 – Herold Frederic, “An Indictment of Russia,” The New York Times, 12 September 1891: “as to the entire number of Jews in Russia […] a total of 6,000,000 is most nearly correct.”
1896 – “Russia and Religious Liberty,” The New York Times, 15 March 18>>>>>> the list is to long to print out on here ......
https://codoh.com/library/document/5397/

[Rolluplostinspace]

I think Arts original question might have been alluding to the fact that the Nazis wouldn't have been able to find six million Jews to slaughter and I agree with him.

[art0hur0moh]

egypts population at the time is now estimated to have been at least 20 million.

[art0hur0moh]

egypts population at the time is now estimated to have been at least 20 million.

[Fletch]

Cheers Jack. The one I saw was only a few newspapers by a UK guy. That link has 287 mentions of 6 million by 1945. It's a very popular number...