People are Happier in Social Democracies

People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:40 pm

People are Happier in Social Democracies Because There’s Less Capitalism

Why Social Democracy is an Immune System for Capitalism’s Economic, Psychological, Social, and Moral Ills


I came across this interesting little .... ten minute read.
How true is it?
Does it give us warning about the hard Brexit we're headed for and Wall st and Branson taking our health care?
Does it help explain American violence the way it says in the write up?
https://eand.co/people-are-happier-in-s ... 0a9c71bfc1
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby McAz » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:58 pm

"Have you ever wondered why Americans appear to be such strange people, to the rest of the world? On the one hand, they are unbelievably cruel to each other — prole against prole. Who else lets their kids be shot at school, and their poor go without insulin, and never let their elderly retire? In today’s world, almost nobody, really."

Give Boris a year or two to catch up. :thumbsup:
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Cannydc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:27 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:People are Happier in Social Democracies Because There’s Less Capitalism

Why Social Democracy is an Immune System for Capitalism’s Economic, Psychological, Social, and Moral Ills


I came across this interesting little .... ten minute read.
How true is it?
Does it give us warning about the hard Brexit we're headed for and Wall st and Branson taking our health care?
Does it help explain American violence the way it says in the write up?
https://eand.co/people-are-happier-in-s ... 0a9c71bfc1


A very good read, and an article worth bookmarking to refer back to.

Personally, I have seen where the laid back approach goes too far (Greece, Spain, Italy) so there are limits, also I would like a bit of capitalism in my life but predatory capitalism is another matter and should have no place on this planet.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Tue Aug 13, 2019 2:39 pm

Maddog kept coming to mind and the way he's always derided social welfare and spoken of his daughters getting jobs because they can compete.
Sorry Mads but you fit this article so well.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Cannydc » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:00 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Maddog kept coming to mind and the way he's always derided social welfare and spoken of his daughters getting jobs because they can compete.
Sorry Mads but you fit this article so well.


In my last job I worked with Boeing in St Louis. Their employees fitted the bill perfectly too, we Brits knocked off at 5ish, but that was often delayed as we didn't wish to appear rude and just go. When we left work, they were still there beavering away, promising to meet us later in the evenings.

Not sure what they thought when they came to us - all meetings were scheduled to end at 4.30, with a short wash-up and home. Then out on the town. They never let on, of course, and it would be fair to say that they had previous experience of the way us Brits work, but I always felt that they were happier with 12 hour days and less socialising.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 3:27 pm

Good article Jack. It does paint a rather rosy picture of Europe, which compared to the US it is, but it's not quite as rosy as he thinks. There may be healthcare and education but it's not immune to capitalism with private providers and insurance giants in control of a lot. It's the same for many formerly publicly owned public services such as utilities and infrastructure. It is true that we are far, far better than the US but it's not as good or hopeful as it once was.

The NHS is a good example of what was once owned by the many providing service for the many. It's now carved up in to smaller competing entities even within the NHS thanks to Thatchers internal market. That, or course, made it far easier to sell bits off until it has ended up with us not even owning the Hospitals, let alone the service provided in many cases. Water, electric, gas, rail, buses and whole host of other 'necessities' for living are also now private with high costs.

I never understand why people use predatory capitalism. There's no such thing canny. It's simply capitalism. People only describe it as predatory because they can't admit that, that is what capitalism is by nature. The ones with the largest amount of capital can call the shots and do what they want. When it extends to something some people don't agree with, it gets a new title. It shouldn't. It's all the same one thing, capitalism.

Let's not forget the ultimate capitalists. Banking. They can create and delete capital at the stroke of a pen key. Central banks can do it unlimited, commercial banks up to a certain level but it amounts to huge power. Countries are dependent on private banks for their money supply, there is no sovereign money (save for a few Middle East/Cuba/NK) That is the real problem for the world but not one that will change until total collapse.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:01 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Maddog kept coming to mind and the way he's always derided social welfare and spoken of his daughters getting jobs because they can compete.
Sorry Mads but you fit this article so well.


This quote from your article perhaps sums him, and others, up:

So Americans must compete bitterly and more desperately every single year for necessities, in fact — precisely because capitalism tied things like healthcare and retirement and childcare to “jobs”, but never pays labour a penny more, only constantly raises prices in order to take all it can for itself.

Hence, they must compete perpetually with one another not to lose their jobs — because there goes a life — but never quite see: there is no need whatsoever to contest these things at all in the first place. The result is that all the very same necessities of life in America now cost vastly more than in Europe — nobody in Europe pays $30,000 to have a child — and Americans must compete bitterly for them, to begin with. Do you see what a strange, bizarre, and foolish mess Americans have made of their society?

Who has really won the endless and bruising contest Americans are perpetually fighting with one another for the basic necessities of life, pitted against one another by capitalism? None of them, really. Capitalism has. What other great empire recently collapsed because ideology meant people were going without life’s necessities, even when they could have easily been provided to all? The Soviet Union, of course — and in a grand and gruesome twist of history, America is collapsing for exactly the same reason, and in the same way, too.


But he and others think they are 'winning'.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby wutang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:28 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:People are Happier in Social Democracies Because There’s Less Capitalism




There isn't 'less capitalism' in social democracies, they are very much part and parcel of the global capitalist system. The happiness in social democracies comes at the expense of the poorer parts of the world which are exploited fully in order to fund the social democratic programs in the richer countries.

While Attlee was building the NHS he was also building concentration camps in Malaysia to keep the workers in line. While the Tory Government on the 50's was building record numbers of council houses it was also chopping body parts off of people in Kenya. In order for a future Labour Government to fund a social democratic future for the UK it must tax the profits of the major corporations whose money flows into London, but where does that money come from? and how is it accumulated? the irony then becomes that in order to maintain this SocDem program them profits must keep flowing in to be taxed, which means the poor peoples who blood sweat and tears generate it must continue to suffer.

Hardly 'less capitalism' for them
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:32 pm

wutang wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:People are Happier in Social Democracies Because There’s Less Capitalism




There isn't 'less capitalism' in social democracies, they are very much part and parcel of the global capitalist system. The happiness in social democracies comes at the expense of the poorer parts of the world which are exploited fully in order to fund the social democratic programs in the richer countries.

While Attlee was building the NHS he was also building concentration camps in Malaysia to keep the workers in line. While the Tory Government on the 50's was building record numbers of council houses it was also chopping body parts off of people in Kenya. In order for a future Labour Government to fund a social democratic future for the UK it must tax the profits of the major corporations whose money flows into London, but where does that money come from? and how is it accumulated? the irony then becomes that in order to maintain this SocDem program them profits must keep flowing in to be taxed, which means the poor peoples who blood sweat and tears generate it must continue to suffer.

Hardly 'less capitalism' for them

There is less capitalism when Libraries education leisure transport health utilities are publicly owned.
You're confusing yourself with socialism.
Socialism doesn't exist and can't while banks create the capital at interest.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 5:37 pm

wutang wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:People are Happier in Social Democracies Because There’s Less Capitalism




There isn't 'less capitalism' in social democracies, they are very much part and parcel of the global capitalist system. The happiness in social democracies comes at the expense of the poorer parts of the world which are exploited fully in order to fund the social democratic programs in the richer countries.

While Attlee was building the NHS he was also building concentration camps in Malaysia to keep the workers in line. While the Tory Government on the 50's was building record numbers of council houses it was also chopping body parts off of people in Kenya. In order for a future Labour Government to fund a social democratic future for the UK it must tax the profits of the major corporations whose money flows into London, but where does that money come from? and how is it accumulated? the irony then becomes that in order to maintain this SocDem program them profits must keep flowing in to be taxed, which means the poor peoples who blood sweat and tears generate it must continue to suffer.

Hardly 'less capitalism' for them


With the usurious debt based private money supply, income from outside the country is required. That's because the interest payable is never created, anywhere in the world. That means our gains are another countries losses. Not everyone can gain so the poorer parts get exploited for their reserves and/or labour. That's even before you get to the capitalism of the corporates.

The lack of sovereign money is what prevents countries from providing for the needs of it's population without resorting to capitalism for it's income. End the debt based private money supply and the world would be a better and fairer place but then banking would lose it's power and wars have been fought to stop sovereign money. eg Libya and pan African gold backed Dinar.

It's been tested by the IMF and found to be better. The Chicago Plan. Powerful entities exist to oppose it, with force if necessary so total collapse would have to take place before any change happens.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby wutang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:18 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:There is less capitalism when Libraries education leisure transport health utilities are publicly owned.
You're confusing yourself with socialism.
Socialism doesn't exist and can't while banks create the capital at interest.


No you are confused about what capitalism is. A capitalist system is one where the capitalist mode of production is the pre-dominant form of social production. The key part here is SOCIAL production - i.e the very society we live in is created along the lines of capitalist production, i.e the logic of capital accumulation.

All those things can only exist within capitalism as long as the accumulation of capital proceeds uninterrupted and on its terms and that means exploiting mutherfuckers because... thats what capital accumulation is, the exploitation of labour by capital.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:24 pm

wutang wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:There is less capitalism when Libraries education leisure transport health utilities are publicly owned.
You're confusing yourself with socialism.
Socialism doesn't exist and can't while banks create the capital at interest.


No you are confused about what capitalism is. A capitalist system is one where the capitalist mode of production is the pre-dominant form of social production. The key part here is SOCIAL production - i.e the very society we live in is created along the lines of capitalist production, i.e the logic of capital accumulation.

All those things can only exist within capitalism as long as the accumulation of capital proceeds uninterrupted and on its terms and that means exploiting mutherfuckers because... thats what capital accumulation is, the exploitation of labour by capital.

Yawn .... the fucking population of England are faced with less capitalism in their daily lives when Libraries transport leisure health education etc are socialised.
Giving birth in America costs about thirty thousand dollars .... full on capitalist experience.
Giving birth in the UK cost you nothing face up.
One woman could become homeless bankrupt because she's pregnant but the other wouldn't.
So the population of the U.K faces less capitalism than the population of the USA.
That's because more in the UK is publicly owned by all of us.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby wutang » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:36 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Yawn .... the fucking population of England are faced with less capitalism in their daily lives when Libraries transport leisure health education etc are socialised.


But they are not socialised. They are state owned/managed which merely means a more state managed form of capitalism. This is not LESS capitalist and while the populations of England may enjoy a better form of capitalist MANAGEMENT the wealth that is required to flow into England to produce these things comes from some extremely unhappy people. This is why the UK Government historically fucked over workers movements around the world, and crushes rebellions in countries where British money is 'invested'.

Even the lovely social democratic Labour governments did it, in fact in some cases they were the most ruthless in doing it.

And this same logic fucks UK workers as well. They demand higher wages, means lower profits, means less taxes, means cuts to public services. Hence Government demanding restraint from workers.

This is why social democracy essentially failed - the need for government to placate capital by enforcing restictions on labour (working class). Capitalism is riddled with crisis and we always pay that price whether under social-democracy or not.
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:38 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:
wutang wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:There is less capitalism when Libraries education leisure transport health utilities are publicly owned.
You're confusing yourself with socialism.
Socialism doesn't exist and can't while banks create the capital at interest.


No you are confused about what capitalism is. A capitalist system is one where the capitalist mode of production is the pre-dominant form of social production. The key part here is SOCIAL production - i.e the very society we live in is created along the lines of capitalist production, i.e the logic of capital accumulation.

All those things can only exist within capitalism as long as the accumulation of capital proceeds uninterrupted and on its terms and that means exploiting mutherfuckers because... thats what capital accumulation is, the exploitation of labour by capital.

Yawn .... the fucking population of England are faced with less capitalism in their daily lives when Libraries transport leisure health education etc are socialised.
Giving birth in America costs about thirty thousand dollars .... full on capitalist experience.
Giving birth in the UK cost you nothing face up.
One woman could become homeless bankrupt because she's pregnant but the other wouldn't.
So the population of the U.K faces less capitalism than the population of the USA.
That's because more in the UK is publicly owned by all of us.


Not to mention being bankrupted in the US because of a health problem. Not through being unable to earn sufficient but by the sheer costs of healthcare. Insurance companies are not charities and many find out the cover is limited, excess is high or doesn't even cover the problem. Some can't even afford it meaning they stay at home waiting to die rather than seek treatment. In the most advanced, wealthiest western nation!
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Re: People are Happier in Social Democracies

Postby Fletch » Tue Aug 13, 2019 6:51 pm

wutang wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Yawn .... the fucking population of England are faced with less capitalism in their daily lives when Libraries transport leisure health education etc are socialised.


But they are not socialised. They are state owned/managed which merely means a more state managed form of capitalism. This is not LESS capitalist and while the populations of England may enjoy a better form of capitalist MANAGEMENT the wealth that is required to flow into England to produce these things comes from some extremely unhappy people. This is why the UK Government historically fucked over workers movements around the world, and crushes rebellions in countries where British money is 'invested'.

Even the lovely social democratic Labour governments did it, in fact in some cases they were the most ruthless in doing it.

And this same logic fucks UK workers as well. They demand higher wages, means lower profits, means less taxes, means cuts to public services. Hence Government demanding restraint from workers.

This is why social democracy essentially failed - the need for government to placate capital by enforcing restictions on labour (working class). Capitalism is riddled with crisis and we always pay that price whether under social-democracy or not.


Capitalism is the private ownership of the means of production. That generally doesn't include public services which are publicly owned and invariably not for profit.

Neoliberalism is the low tax for the few, private provision of everything, including the 'safety net' for the poor, sick and disabled. It's an extreme form of capitalism and has been the western ideology since Thatcher bought it in. Reagonmoics, Trickle Down, Blair's Third Way. All meant privatisation or private provision. Selling off the family silver as it is/was often called, and on the cheap too. It's the basis of the EU. See Greece, Spain, France, Ireland. See also riots or extreme hardship enforced by the private money supplier the world bank, the IMF and central banks via politicians.
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