HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:47 pm

jra will be heartbroken.

The rest of us can happily rejoice that a dreadful vanity project is done with and (with any luck and a new government) MY wish list can be addressed.

1. Address the scourge of foodbanks.

2. Fund councils to build properly affordable housing.

3. Address the underfunding of the NHS, as well as understaffing.

4. Fund proper care for those suffering mental illness.

5. Proper care for our elderly, especially when coming home from hospital.

There's plenty more, but with only around £80bn saved, let's not spend it more than once. And NO MORE F***ING TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... five-years
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Lady Murasaki » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:24 am

It hasn’t been properly publicised but schools have been suffering cuts to their budgets too.
Budget cuts means losing staff in education.
The first to go are support staff and assistants, which means the vulnerable and worse off suffer first.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:24 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:It hasn’t been properly publicised but schools have been suffering cuts to their budgets too.
Budget cuts means losing staff in education.
The first to go are support staff and assistants, which means the vulnerable and worse off suffer first.


Big tick for that one.

The list was far from complete, the sins of the Austerity con have been cast far and wide.

Put compensation for WASPI women on that list too.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby MungoBrush » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:46 am

Cannydc wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:It hasn’t been properly publicised but schools have been suffering cuts to their budgets too.
Budget cuts means losing staff in education.
The first to go are support staff and assistants, which means the vulnerable and worse off suffer first.


Big tick for that one.

The list was far from complete, the sins of the Austerity con have been cast far and wide.

Put compensation for WASPI women on that list too.


Yes, unfortunately it took the UK a long time to recover from Labour's biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby McAz » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:52 am

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:It hasn’t been properly publicised but schools have been suffering cuts to their budgets too.
Budget cuts means losing staff in education.
The first to go are support staff and assistants, which means the vulnerable and worse off suffer first.


Big tick for that one.

The list was far from complete, the sins of the Austerity con have been cast far and wide.

Put compensation for WASPI women on that list too.


Yes, unfortunately it took the UK a long time to recover from Labour's biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression.

There wasn’t a Labour economic collapse - there was a worldwide financial crisis sparked by the greedy in Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac in the US.

Have we now recovered from it? :dunno:
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby jra » Sat Sep 07, 2019 11:27 am

Cannydc wrote:jra will be heartbroken.

The rest of us can happily rejoice that a dreadful vanity project is done with and (with any luck and a new government) MY wish list can be addressed.

1. Address the scourge of foodbanks.

2. Fund councils to build properly affordable housing.

3. Address the underfunding of the NHS, as well as understaffing.

4. Fund proper care for those suffering mental illness.

5. Proper care for our elderly, especially when coming home from hospital.

There's plenty more, but with only around £80bn saved, let's not spend it more than once. And NO MORE F***ING TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... five-years


It's not a (dreadful) vanity project. It's an essential project mainly to relieve congestion on the WCML. Judging by your post you know little about railway logistics and rail usage in the UK.

As per usual the UK government is delivering rail projects late.

HS2 at 88bn is less than a years funding for the NHS. HS2, on the other hand, is essentially a one-off cost. You've also got to remember HS2 will pay for itself in the long term via rail fares, unlike where you are suggesting the money should be spent.

You try telling the Japanese, Spanish, Germans, French and Italians high-speed lines are vanity projects.

If nothing more, HS2 will get cars off the road and that is never going to be a bad thing.

With the predicted rise in passengers on the WCML and the line being near-maximum capacity over large stretches already, what do you suggest is the best solution other than building a relief line, i.e. HS2.

And how do you feel about HS1, Thameslink Programme and Crossrail. Were those just vanity projects as well.

Gotta love railway/train haters.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:43 pm

jra wrote:
Cannydc wrote:jra will be heartbroken.

The rest of us can happily rejoice that a dreadful vanity project is done with and (with any luck and a new government) MY wish list can be addressed.

1. Address the scourge of foodbanks.

2. Fund councils to build properly affordable housing.

3. Address the underfunding of the NHS, as well as understaffing.

4. Fund proper care for those suffering mental illness.

5. Proper care for our elderly, especially when coming home from hospital.

There's plenty more, but with only around £80bn saved, let's not spend it more than once. And NO MORE F***ING TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... five-years


It's not a (dreadful) vanity project. It's an essential project mainly to relieve congestion on the WCML. Judging by your post you know little about railway logistics and rail usage in the UK.

As per usual the UK government is delivering rail projects late.

HS2 at 88bn is less than a years funding for the NHS. HS2, on the other hand, is essentially a one-off cost. You've also got to remember HS2 will pay for itself in the long term via rail fares, unlike where you are suggesting the money should be spent.

You try telling the Japanese, Spanish, Germans, French and Italians high-speed lines are vanity projects.

If nothing more, HS2 will get cars off the road and that is never going to be a bad thing.

With the predicted rise in passengers on the WCML and the line being near-maximum capacity over large stretches already, what do you suggest is the best solution other than building a relief line, i.e. HS2.

And how do you feel about HS1, Thameslink Programme and Crossrail. Were those just vanity projects as well.

Gotta love railway/train haters.


Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby MungoBrush » Sat Sep 07, 2019 4:35 pm

Cannydc wrote:Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.


And who are you trying to kid?
I just checked the prices for 4 1st class tickets from Peterborough to Newcastle for next Monday morning.

£524

Now stop lying and check actual facts next time.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/t ... 9/0930/dep
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:06 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.


And who are you trying to kid?
I just checked the prices for 4 1st class tickets from Peterborough to Newcastle for next Monday morning.

£524

Now stop lying and check actual facts next time.

http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/t ... 9/0930/dep


No lie, Bungle - it's absolutely 100% true. I've said before - I never lie about shit like that on forums, what's the point ?The tickets were bought on the day via an MOD rail warrant, and the cost was £250 each. I kept mine for ages, if I knew where it was I'd put up a picture.

We said at the time that it would have been cheaper to hire a stretch limo with a bar for the 3 days...

So, did you check the actual price 10 years ago ? The line has had many ups and downs since then - prices can vary.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cactus Jack » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:09 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Cannydc wrote:Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.


And who are you trying to kid?
I just checked the prices for 4 1st class tickets from Peterborough to Newcastle for next Monday morning.

£524

Now stop lying and check actual facts next time.


http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/t ... 9/0930/dep

You're forgetting the return journey.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:18 pm

Oh, and I checked today's prices.

Today - First Class Adult, Peterborough to Newcastle, 1st Class Open Return leaving today - £370

And that's a Saturday start...

https://www.thetrainline.com/book/resul ... X3A%2Bo%3D
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Cannydc » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:25 pm

It's £374.00 setting out on a Monday.

So that's £1,496.00 for four people.

You need a bloody mortgage - and a competent person to book (not Bungle) :shake head:
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby jra » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:05 pm

Cannydc wrote:
jra wrote:
Cannydc wrote:jra will be heartbroken.

The rest of us can happily rejoice that a dreadful vanity project is done with and (with any luck and a new government) MY wish list can be addressed.

1. Address the scourge of foodbanks.

2. Fund councils to build properly affordable housing.

3. Address the underfunding of the NHS, as well as understaffing.

4. Fund proper care for those suffering mental illness.

5. Proper care for our elderly, especially when coming home from hospital.

There's plenty more, but with only around £80bn saved, let's not spend it more than once. And NO MORE F***ING TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... five-years


It's not a (dreadful) vanity project. It's an essential project mainly to relieve congestion on the WCML. Judging by your post you know little about railway logistics and rail usage in the UK.

As per usual the UK government is delivering rail projects late.

HS2 at 88bn is less than a years funding for the NHS. HS2, on the other hand, is essentially a one-off cost. You've also got to remember HS2 will pay for itself in the long term via rail fares, unlike where you are suggesting the money should be spent.

You try telling the Japanese, Spanish, Germans, French and Italians high-speed lines are vanity projects.

If nothing more, HS2 will get cars off the road and that is never going to be a bad thing.

With the predicted rise in passengers on the WCML and the line being near-maximum capacity over large stretches already, what do you suggest is the best solution other than building a relief line, i.e. HS2.

And how do you feel about HS1, Thameslink Programme and Crossrail. Were those just vanity projects as well.

Gotta love railway/train haters.


Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.


So are you saying we should just fall even furher behind Europe than we already are in terms of rail infrastructure? Talking about short-sightedness. Cost isn't the issue, it's the fact it needs to be done. I agree that a lot of this should have been done 20-40 years, but better late than never.

Relying on cars isn't the answer for the future. Many of our roads are already heavily congested. What do you think the situation will be like in 20-30 years time? Railways are a far more efficient way of moving people and much more environmentally friendly.

I take it you haven't travelled much recently by train, because if you had, you'd know most modern trains are comfortable. Train usage has doubled in the last 20 years in spite of fare increases (which I agree should be simplified and reduced in many cases). If you travel first class, it's bound to be more expensive than standard class and in many cases, it's not worth the upgrade.

As for cattle class, you can avoid this most of the time by travelling off-peak.

You still haven't answered what would be the alternative railway infrastructure wise to HS2, because something needs to be done. It's not something that can be put on hold indefinitely.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby McAz » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:09 pm

We need the money to help cushion the fall-out from a hard-Brexit.
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Re: HS2 DELAYED UP TO 5 YEARS

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:11 pm

jra wrote:
Cannydc wrote:
jra wrote:
Cannydc wrote:jra will be heartbroken.

The rest of us can happily rejoice that a dreadful vanity project is done with and (with any luck and a new government) MY wish list can be addressed.

1. Address the scourge of foodbanks.

2. Fund councils to build properly affordable housing.

3. Address the underfunding of the NHS, as well as understaffing.

4. Fund proper care for those suffering mental illness.

5. Proper care for our elderly, especially when coming home from hospital.

There's plenty more, but with only around £80bn saved, let's not spend it more than once. And NO MORE F***ING TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... five-years


It's not a (dreadful) vanity project. It's an essential project mainly to relieve congestion on the WCML. Judging by your post you know little about railway logistics and rail usage in the UK.

As per usual the UK government is delivering rail projects late.

HS2 at 88bn is less than a years funding for the NHS. HS2, on the other hand, is essentially a one-off cost. You've also got to remember HS2 will pay for itself in the long term via rail fares, unlike where you are suggesting the money should be spent.

You try telling the Japanese, Spanish, Germans, French and Italians high-speed lines are vanity projects.

If nothing more, HS2 will get cars off the road and that is never going to be a bad thing.

With the predicted rise in passengers on the WCML and the line being near-maximum capacity over large stretches already, what do you suggest is the best solution other than building a relief line, i.e. HS2.

And how do you feel about HS1, Thameslink Programme and Crossrail. Were those just vanity projects as well.

Gotta love railway/train haters.


Honestly, who are you trying to kid ?

Last time I travelled on a train, four of us travelled from Peterborough to Newcastle. It cost exactly £1,000 - admittedly first class, but it was 11 years ago. If you think fares on that HS2 line won't be comparable, even for cattle class, think again. The cost of taking your car on the London - Brum journey (return) would be £20-30, and all 4 travel in comfort.

If we were going to fund projects like this, 30 years ago was the time - when Thatcher was spunking away North Sea oil revenues on tax cuts and 4 million unemployed. Not now.


So are you saying we should just fall even furher behind Europe than we already are in terms of rail infrastructure? Talking about short-sightedness. Cost isn't the issue, it's the fact it needs to be done. I agree that a lot of this should have been done 20-40 years, but better late than never.

Relying on cars isn't the answer for the future. Many of our roads are already heavily congested. What do you think the situation will be like in 20-30 years time? Railways are a far more efficient way of moving people and much more environmentally friendly.

I take it you haven't travelled much recently by train, because if you had, you'd know most modern trains are comfortable. Train usage has doubled in the last 20 years in spite of fare increases (which I agree should be simplified and reduced in many cases). If you travel first class, it's bound to be more expensive than standard class and in many cases, it's not worth the upgrade.

As for cattle class, you can avoid this most of the time by travelling off-peak.

You still haven't answered what would be the alternative railway infrastructure wise to HS2, because something needs to be done. It's not something that can be put on hold indefinitely.

How many cars do you really think this would take of the roads ....0.02%?
Yes I pulled that figure out my ass.
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