Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:11 am

Grafenwalder wrote:The only other case of a diplomat i found involved in a serious offence was a guy from Georgia who mowed down and killed a girl in Washington, then did a Sacoolas and fled back to his own country, who promptly put him on the next plane back to the US where he was sent down - just as Sacoolas should be now.


She is wanted here for "causing death by dangerous driving"
These are the sentencing guidelines:
Causing death by dangerous driving

Road Traffic Act 1988, s.1
Effective from: 4 August 2008
Triable on indictment
Maximum: 14 years’ custody, minimum disqualification of 2 years with compulsory extended re-test

This is a serious offence for the purposes of s.224 Criminal Justice Act 2003


https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/of ... s-driving/

So if she was found guilty and given a prison sentence of 12 months or more, she would then be deported.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby Major » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:56 am

She has DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:43 pm

Major wrote:She has DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.


No she doesn't

She didn't at the time of the accident
And she doesn't now.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LEGENDARY » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:59 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Major wrote:She has DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.


No she doesn't

She didn't at the time of the accident
And she doesn't now.


Ok so on what grounds are the Yanks not handing her over then? :shake head:
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby MungoBrush » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:22 pm

LEGENDARY wrote:
MungoBrush wrote:
Major wrote:She has DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY.


No she doesn't

She didn't at the time of the accident
And she doesn't now.


Ok so on what grounds are the Yanks not handing her over then? :shake head:


On the first point:

Dunn's parents were advised by two leading specialist lawyers on diplomatic immunity, Mark Stephens and Geoffrey Robertson. They advised that Anne Sacoolas was not entitled to diplomatic immunity, as her husband was not listed as a diplomat. Furthermore, they contended, diplomatic immunity no longer applied upon Sacoolas's return to her home country; therefore, it would be possible to take civil action in the US courts.


And on the second point - it's all speculation, but:

On 9 February 2020, the Mail on Sunday disclosed that Sacoolas was previously involved in espionage with the US CIA.[55] The Times also suggested that the disclosure could lead to allegations that the US were giving Sacoolas special protection because of her past activities with the CIA.[55] The New York Post reported that Jeremy Hunt had said that the disclosure might explain why the US had declined to authorise Sacoolas's extradition


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_ ... tic_issues
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby Grafenwalder » Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:14 pm

LEGENDARY wrote:
Grafenwalder wrote:Yea when that shit about Sacoolas being "a spy" or "agent" broke i'd already looked at CIA websites and it's interesting what they have to say - as there is no such thing.
Myth 2: The men and women who work for the CIA are spies and agents
Citizens who work for the CIA are officers – not agents or spies. All employees, from operations officers, to analysts, to librarians and public affairs, are considered CIA officers.
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/fe ... myths.html
In other words Sacoolas could simply have been a paper shuffler at some desk job at Croughton as many are but it suits both the US and UK governments to hype up her position into some kind of super sleuth 007 figure, privy to sensitive 'intel' whose presence in a court for what would have been a mere slap on the wrist, could endanger CIA officers worldwide and the security of the US. Sorry mate but to me that's utter bollocks and just a wild yarn spun by US/UK to save Sacoolas's skin and get the Dunn family off their backs. To make matters worse, UK government were complicit in this all along but lied to the Dunn family. Raab and Johnson should be ashamed of themselves as they've acted disgracefully.

Then there is this from another CIA website;

Impunity of Agents in International Law - Principles of National Jurisdiction
The concept of sovereignty carries along with it the rule that the laws of a country are supreme within its own territorial limits. Consequently, generally speaking, whether a particular act constitutes a crime is determined by the laws of the country within whose borders it was committed.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... p_0001.htm
Now i'm no lawyer but to me that clearly states if an officer commits a crime within another country, then the laws of that country are supreme and they are bound by them.

The US needs to do the decent thing and return Sacoolas to face what now will be a custodial sentence as she used up her free pass by fleeing the country. She's killed an innocent young man and the US is protecting her. Shame on a country that can behave in such a despicable manner.


Haha, have to laugh. The US government is trying to extradite Assange for exposing US crimes against humanity. Why on earth would you believe anything written by an Intelligence service. They have been exposed for allsorts in our lifetime Cold War times to present day. From arms/drug deals, to torture, rendition etc... why would you take anything from them as gospel.

As to the Sacolas incident, you would have thought they would have handed her over to keep the Old Alliance ticking along, with her at worst getting a suspended sentence of some kind, but it seems not...

Sadly there is an element of truth in what you say and indeed we should be asking ourselves, is this really how we see having a "special relationship" with a country that harbours such serious criminality, and yes you are right, had Sacoolas done the decent thing and faced justice in a court instead of fleeing, the most she'd have got would be a community order, small fine and points on her licence. And i base that outcome from an identical case which occurred in 2017 involving an American lady driving on the wrong side of the road. Sacoolas doesn't qualify for this now though - for her it must be a custodial sentence and hefty fine. And to think at the time Sacoolas killed Harry Dunn, her 12 year old son was in the car with her.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-49972773
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby MungoBrush » Mon Feb 17, 2020 11:37 am

Grafenwalder wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
Grafenwalder wrote:Yea when that shit about Sacoolas being "a spy" or "agent" broke i'd already looked at CIA websites and it's interesting what they have to say - as there is no such thing.
Myth 2: The men and women who work for the CIA are spies and agents
Citizens who work for the CIA are officers – not agents or spies. All employees, from operations officers, to analysts, to librarians and public affairs, are considered CIA officers.
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/fe ... myths.html
In other words Sacoolas could simply have been a paper shuffler at some desk job at Croughton as many are but it suits both the US and UK governments to hype up her position into some kind of super sleuth 007 figure, privy to sensitive 'intel' whose presence in a court for what would have been a mere slap on the wrist, could endanger CIA officers worldwide and the security of the US. Sorry mate but to me that's utter bollocks and just a wild yarn spun by US/UK to save Sacoolas's skin and get the Dunn family off their backs. To make matters worse, UK government were complicit in this all along but lied to the Dunn family. Raab and Johnson should be ashamed of themselves as they've acted disgracefully.

Then there is this from another CIA website;

Impunity of Agents in International Law - Principles of National Jurisdiction
The concept of sovereignty carries along with it the rule that the laws of a country are supreme within its own territorial limits. Consequently, generally speaking, whether a particular act constitutes a crime is determined by the laws of the country within whose borders it was committed.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... p_0001.htm
Now i'm no lawyer but to me that clearly states if an officer commits a crime within another country, then the laws of that country are supreme and they are bound by them.

The US needs to do the decent thing and return Sacoolas to face what now will be a custodial sentence as she used up her free pass by fleeing the country. She's killed an innocent young man and the US is protecting her. Shame on a country that can behave in such a despicable manner.


Haha, have to laugh. The US government is trying to extradite Assange for exposing US crimes against humanity. Why on earth would you believe anything written by an Intelligence service. They have been exposed for allsorts in our lifetime Cold War times to present day. From arms/drug deals, to torture, rendition etc... why would you take anything from them as gospel.

As to the Sacolas incident, you would have thought they would have handed her over to keep the Old Alliance ticking along, with her at worst getting a suspended sentence of some kind, but it seems not...

Sadly there is an element of truth in what you say and indeed we should be asking ourselves, is this really how we see having a "special relationship" with a country that harbours such serious criminality, and yes you are right, had Sacoolas done the decent thing and faced justice in a court instead of fleeing, the most she'd have got would be a community order, small fine and points on her licence. And i base that outcome from an identical case which occurred in 2017 involving an American lady driving on the wrong side of the road. Sacoolas doesn't qualify for this now though - for her it must be a custodial sentence and hefty fine. And to think at the time Sacoolas killed Harry Dunn, her 12 year old son was in the car with her.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-49972773



If the UK authorities wanted to put pressure on, they could put together a request and arrest warrant and seek an Interpol "red notice".
It is not an international arrest warrant, rather a request to law enforcement worldwide to locate and provisionally arrest a person pending extradition, surrender, or similar legal action. It means that the person suspected of a crime faces arrest if they travel abroad.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50086340

Then she could never leave the USA ever again without getting arrested.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby Grafenwalder » Mon Feb 17, 2020 4:25 pm

MungoBrush wrote:
Grafenwalder wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
Grafenwalder wrote:Yea when that shit about Sacoolas being "a spy" or "agent" broke i'd already looked at CIA websites and it's interesting what they have to say - as there is no such thing.
Myth 2: The men and women who work for the CIA are spies and agents
Citizens who work for the CIA are officers – not agents or spies. All employees, from operations officers, to analysts, to librarians and public affairs, are considered CIA officers.
https://www.cia.gov/news-information/fe ... myths.html
In other words Sacoolas could simply have been a paper shuffler at some desk job at Croughton as many are but it suits both the US and UK governments to hype up her position into some kind of super sleuth 007 figure, privy to sensitive 'intel' whose presence in a court for what would have been a mere slap on the wrist, could endanger CIA officers worldwide and the security of the US. Sorry mate but to me that's utter bollocks and just a wild yarn spun by US/UK to save Sacoolas's skin and get the Dunn family off their backs. To make matters worse, UK government were complicit in this all along but lied to the Dunn family. Raab and Johnson should be ashamed of themselves as they've acted disgracefully.

Then there is this from another CIA website;

Impunity of Agents in International Law - Principles of National Jurisdiction
The concept of sovereignty carries along with it the rule that the laws of a country are supreme within its own territorial limits. Consequently, generally speaking, whether a particular act constitutes a crime is determined by the laws of the country within whose borders it was committed.
https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for- ... p_0001.htm
Now i'm no lawyer but to me that clearly states if an officer commits a crime within another country, then the laws of that country are supreme and they are bound by them.

The US needs to do the decent thing and return Sacoolas to face what now will be a custodial sentence as she used up her free pass by fleeing the country. She's killed an innocent young man and the US is protecting her. Shame on a country that can behave in such a despicable manner.


Haha, have to laugh. The US government is trying to extradite Assange for exposing US crimes against humanity. Why on earth would you believe anything written by an Intelligence service. They have been exposed for allsorts in our lifetime Cold War times to present day. From arms/drug deals, to torture, rendition etc... why would you take anything from them as gospel.

As to the Sacolas incident, you would have thought they would have handed her over to keep the Old Alliance ticking along, with her at worst getting a suspended sentence of some kind, but it seems not...

Sadly there is an element of truth in what you say and indeed we should be asking ourselves, is this really how we see having a "special relationship" with a country that harbours such serious criminality, and yes you are right, had Sacoolas done the decent thing and faced justice in a court instead of fleeing, the most she'd have got would be a community order, small fine and points on her licence. And i base that outcome from an identical case which occurred in 2017 involving an American lady driving on the wrong side of the road. Sacoolas doesn't qualify for this now though - for her it must be a custodial sentence and hefty fine. And to think at the time Sacoolas killed Harry Dunn, her 12 year old son was in the car with her.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... e-49972773



If the UK authorities wanted to put pressure on, they could put together a request and arrest warrant and seek an Interpol "red notice".
It is not an international arrest warrant, rather a request to law enforcement worldwide to locate and provisionally arrest a person pending extradition, surrender, or similar legal action. It means that the person suspected of a crime faces arrest if they travel abroad.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-50086340

Then she could never leave the USA ever again without getting arrested.

Not if she enters UK or any other country with extradition arrangements with us - just as the US does. UK needs to have a re-think over what they believe this "special relationship" we're supposed to have with them is all about as this shows it's just meaningless empty words and a one way street.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:32 pm

Assange should be released immediately.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LordRaven » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:34 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Assange should be released immediately.


And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LEGENDARY » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:41 pm

LordRaven wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Assange should be released immediately.


And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards


FFS! Raven, how many nations who were directly or indirectly in conflict in the diplomatic cables Assange released through The Guardian and others?

Was that the same as what Lord Haw Haw did to you? :shake head:
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LordRaven » Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:49 pm

LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Assange should be released immediately.


And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards


FFS! Raven, how many nations who were directly or indirectly in conflict in the diplomatic cables Assange released through The Guardian and others?

Was that the same as what Lord Haw Haw did to you? :shake head:


What was that first question again?

I might understand the second when you respond, but having a go now I would say The Axis Forces.
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LEGENDARY » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:11 pm

LordRaven wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Assange should be released immediately.


And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards


FFS! Raven, how many nations who were directly or indirectly in conflict in the diplomatic cables Assange released through The Guardian and others?

Was that the same as what Lord Haw Haw did to you? :shake head:


What was that first question again?

I might understand the second when you respond, but having a go now I would say The Axis Forces.


The diplomatic cables included references to almost every country in the world and led to amongst other things the Arab Spring including the Syrian civil war and the invasion of Gaddafi's Libya all which the West took part in and were in favour of so how is Assange's 'treachery' on par with Lord Haw Haw ffs?
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LordRaven » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:34 pm

LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Assange should be released immediately.


And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards


FFS! Raven, how many nations who were directly or indirectly in conflict in the diplomatic cables Assange released through The Guardian and others?

Was that the same as what Lord Haw Haw did to you? :shake head:


What was that first question again?

I might understand the second when you respond, but having a go now I would say The Axis Forces.


The diplomatic cables included references to almost every country in the world and led to amongst other things the Arab Spring including the Syrian civil war and the invasion of Gaddafi's Libya all which the West took part in and were in favour of so how is Assange's 'treachery' on par with Lord Haw Haw ffs?


He endangered the lives of many people.
Can you even imagine your name address and contact details splattered all over the internet leg?
The 500 would descend on Cyprus :gigglesnshit:
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Re: Wife of US Diplomat kills biker

Postby LEGENDARY » Mon Feb 17, 2020 7:56 pm

LordRaven wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
LEGENDARY wrote:
LordRaven wrote:And Lord Haw Haw was not a traitor by your standards


FFS! Raven, how many nations who were directly or indirectly in conflict in the diplomatic cables Assange released through The Guardian and others?

Was that the same as what Lord Haw Haw did to you? :shake head:


What was that first question again?

I might understand the second when you respond, but having a go now I would say The Axis Forces.


The diplomatic cables included references to almost every country in the world and led to amongst other things the Arab Spring including the Syrian civil war and the invasion of Gaddafi's Libya all which the West took part in and were in favour of so how is Assange's 'treachery' on par with Lord Haw Haw ffs?


He endangered the lives of many people.
Can you even imagine your name address and contact details splattered all over the internet leg?
The 500 would descend on Cyprus :gigglesnshit:


Change the subject as usual you muppet... :ooer:
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