Assisted Dying

[Keyser]

Many people on this thread have put forward the argument for assisted dying far more eloquently than I ever could.

If a person chooses to put an end to their life then surely it is their decision to make and no one else's?

To die with peace and dignity rather than begin a slow decline in terrible pain really is that not much of a choice as far as I am concerned. It would (of course) have to be very tightly controlled to prevent possible abuses but it does seem the way forward to me.

After all when a beloved pet is suffering we put them to sleep, we do not let them endure a long and agonising end because that would be far too cruel.

[Guest]

Personally the Dutch system works. You're diagnosed with a terminal condition. You ask your doctor to help you with assisted dying. The doctor gets a 2nd opinion to confirm that your condition is terminal and liable to cause a significant drop in the quality of your life. That then goes to a panel and they confirm whether all the conditions have been met

If they approve then your doctor sets up an appointment with you at your home. administers two drugs and your life is brought to an end

The only problems with the the Dutch system is that you have to be in full command of your senses to the end to give informed consent for the drugs to be administered. This causes people to invoke the process a little too early as in the case of dementia they worry that if they leave it too late they may not be able to consent at the end

Similarly, there's no room for living-wills in that if an accident leaves you in a coma on a life support machine you can't consent to be euthanized

That's why I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause in the doctors notes

[Keyser]

Personally the Dutch system works. You're diagnosed with a terminal condition. You ask your doctor to help you with assisted dying. The doctor gets a 2nd opinion to confirm that your condition is terminal and liable to cause a significant drop in the quality of your life. That then goes to a panel and they confirm whether all the conditions have been met

If they approve then your doctor sets up an appointment with you at your home. administers two drugs and your life is brought to an end

The only problems with the the Dutch system is that you have to be in full command of your senses to the end to give informed consent for the drugs to be administered. This causes people to invoke the process a little too early as in the case of dementia they worry that if they leave it too late they may not be able to consent at the end

Similarly, there's no room for living-wills in that if an accident leaves you in a coma on a life support machine you can't consent to be euthanized

That's why I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause in the doctors notes

I did not know about the Dutch system and that was a very informative post - thanks.

[Vam]

Personally the Dutch system works. You're diagnosed with a terminal condition. You ask your doctor to help you with assisted dying. The doctor gets a 2nd opinion to confirm that your condition is terminal and liable to cause a significant drop in the quality of your life. That then goes to a panel and they confirm whether all the conditions have been met

If they approve then your doctor sets up an appointment with you at your home. administers two drugs and your life is brought to an end

The only problems with the the Dutch system is that you have to be in full command of your senses to the end to give informed consent for the drugs to be administered. This causes people to invoke the process a little too early as in the case of dementia they worry that if they leave it too late they may not be able to consent at the end

Similarly, there's no room for living-wills in that if an accident leaves you in a coma on a life support machine you can't consent to be euthanized

That's why I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause in the doctors notes

I did not know about the Dutch system and that was a very informative post - thanks.

Neither did I. Will definitely check it out...and then tell a friend....

Thanks, Guest.

[Keyser]

Personally the Dutch system works. You're diagnosed with a terminal condition. You ask your doctor to help you with assisted dying. The doctor gets a 2nd opinion to confirm that your condition is terminal and liable to cause a significant drop in the quality of your life. That then goes to a panel and they confirm whether all the conditions have been met

If they approve then your doctor sets up an appointment with you at your home. administers two drugs and your life is brought to an end

The only problems with the the Dutch system is that you have to be in full command of your senses to the end to give informed consent for the drugs to be administered. This causes people to invoke the process a little too early as in the case of dementia they worry that if they leave it too late they may not be able to consent at the end

Similarly, there's no room for living-wills in that if an accident leaves you in a coma on a life support machine you can't consent to be euthanized

That's why I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause in the doctors notes

I did not know about the Dutch system and that was a very informative post - thanks.

Neither did I. Will definitely check it out...and then tell a friend....

Thanks, Guest.

Yes that post was excellent.

[Vam]

So was Nic's. And yours

[Keyser]

So was Nic's. And yours

Thank you - this thread is heartbreaking for many reasons especially what various people on here have been through.

[Lady Murasaki]

Personally the Dutch system works. You're diagnosed with a terminal condition. You ask your doctor to help you with assisted dying. The doctor gets a 2nd opinion to confirm that your condition is terminal and liable to cause a significant drop in the quality of your life. That then goes to a panel and they confirm whether all the conditions have been met

If they approve then your doctor sets up an appointment with you at your home. administers two drugs and your life is brought to an end

The only problems with the the Dutch system is that you have to be in full command of your senses to the end to give informed consent for the drugs to be administered. This causes people to invoke the process a little too early as in the case of dementia they worry that if they leave it too late they may not be able to consent at the end

Similarly, there's no room for living-wills in that if an accident leaves you in a coma on a life support machine you can't consent to be euthanized

That's why I have a living will with a do not resuscitate clause in the doctors notes

If it works why haven't all the doctors signed up to it?

[Lady Murasaki]

They being the lawmakers.

There is no foolproof method that is good enough to legalise it, hence it was turned down again today.

Painless death? What makes you think that it's painless?

No, there's too much scope for people to take advantage if the law changed.

I respect your views on this, I really do.

But I still fully support a terminally-ill person's right to make an informed choice on how they should die, provided that all legal criteria is met, of course.

Morphine eases pain. Strictly-supervised, medically-administered morphine can make the pain go away for ever. I believe that would be a blessed release for Noel Conway and many like him.

I respect your views too.
But I think there's more to this than meets the eye.
Assisted dying means a society that condones suicide when things get too difficult.
That has all sorts of ramifications.

No. No it doesn't. And it's a hell of a lot more than things just getting too difficult.

In reference to the earlier suggestions that if someone wanted to kill themselves they would find a way; I disagree there also. There's a world of difference between say the way Dignitas go about assisted dying and DIY assisted dying. If I was at the end of a cancer battle, I was bed bound, in and out of consciousnesses, and slowly and painfully fading away I'd choose assisted if it was available to me. I'd choose it because it would be easier for me, it would spare my family the horrendous final trauma of waiting for me to go, and it would stop me being a money drain whilst I barely cling to a life I no longer wanted.
I wouldn't choose DIY suicide because I would have to go sooner than I wanted if I wanted to do it myself without implicating anyone else. I wouldn't be able to ensure it was calm and peaceful and surrounded by loved ones. It would have to be sneaky and probably quite lonely.

I know it's a lot more, this is an upsetting subject for everyone but there is a knock on effect on legalising assisted dying for those suffering.
Should traumatised teenagers who've suffered abuse get the same treatment because they can't live with the pain? This is what is happening in places it's legalised.

[Vam]

No. No it doesn't. And it's a hell of a lot more than things just getting too difficult.

In reference to the earlier suggestions that if someone wanted to kill themselves they would find a way; I disagree there also. There's a world of difference between say the way Dignitas go about assisted dying and DIY assisted dying. If I was at the end of a cancer battle, I was bed bound, in and out of consciousnesses, and slowly and painfully fading away I'd choose assisted if it was available to me. I'd choose it because it would be easier for me, it would spare my family the horrendous final trauma of waiting for me to go, and it would stop me being a money drain whilst I barely cling to a life I no longer wanted.
I wouldn't choose DIY suicide because I would have to go sooner than I wanted if I wanted to do it myself without implicating anyone else. I wouldn't be able to ensure it was calm and peaceful and surrounded by loved ones. It would have to be sneaky and probably quite lonely.

I know it's a lot more, this is an upsetting subject for everyone but there is a knock on effect on legalising assisted dying for those suffering.

Should traumatised teenagers who've suffered abuse get the same treatment because they can't live with the pain? This is what is happening in places it's legalised.

Sorry, but....whaaaat?

Do you have a credible link to support this seriously worrying analogy?

[Lady Murasaki]

No. No it doesn't. And it's a hell of a lot more than things just getting too difficult.

In reference to the earlier suggestions that if someone wanted to kill themselves they would find a way; I disagree there also. There's a world of difference between say the way Dignitas go about assisted dying and DIY assisted dying. If I was at the end of a cancer battle, I was bed bound, in and out of consciousnesses, and slowly and painfully fading away I'd choose assisted if it was available to me. I'd choose it because it would be easier for me, it would spare my family the horrendous final trauma of waiting for me to go, and it would stop me being a money drain whilst I barely cling to a life I no longer wanted.
I wouldn't choose DIY suicide because I would have to go sooner than I wanted if I wanted to do it myself without implicating anyone else. I wouldn't be able to ensure it was calm and peaceful and surrounded by loved ones. It would have to be sneaky and probably quite lonely.

I know it's a lot more, this is an upsetting subject for everyone but there is a knock on effect on legalising assisted dying for those suffering.

Should traumatised teenagers who've suffered abuse get the same treatment because they can't live with the pain? This is what is happening in places it's legalised.

Sorry, but....whaaaat?

Do you have a credible link to support this seriously worrying analogy?

The Netherlands has seen a sharp increase in people asking to end their own lives in people suffering with mental illnesses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... anasia-du/

[Vam]

Thank you for the link, Lady M.

Jaw-dropping - kids clamouring to be euthanised, because of intolerable mental health issues Certainly an unimaginable concept, and the last thing that would have ever occurred to me when I started this thread.

[Lady Murasaki]

Thank you for the link, Lady M.

Jaw-dropping - kids clamouring to be euthanised, because of intolerable mental health issues Certainly an unimaginable concept, and the last thing that would have ever occurred to me when I started this thread.

Me either, but I guess the lawmakers have to look beyond personal tragedies at how the whole of society can be affected.

[Vam]

Thank you for the link, Lady M.

Jaw-dropping - kids clamouring to be euthanised, because of intolerable mental health issues Certainly an unimaginable concept, and the last thing that would have ever occurred to me when I started this thread.

Me either, but I guess the lawmakers have to look beyond personal tragedies at how the whole of society can be affected.

True, but I guess lawmakers in countries where euthanasia clinics legally operate have done that.

You've certainly widened the debate today, and what you've shown us has genuinely shocked and saddened me. But it doesn't deviate from my overall support of scrupulously-controlled assisted dying. It should go without saying that every single application should be judged on its own merit, and in accordance with legal protocols.

Interestingly, this is an extract from the article you linked to. Imo, it perfectly sums up the ethos of controlled euthanasia...

"You can prepare for [euthanasia], you can say goodbye, you are present with someone, and it can be a loving memory not only hurt, as suicide is only hurt."

[Guest]

No. No it doesn't. And it's a hell of a lot more than things just getting too difficult.

In reference to the earlier suggestions that if someone wanted to kill themselves they would find a way; I disagree there also. There's a world of difference between say the way Dignitas go about assisted dying and DIY assisted dying. If I was at the end of a cancer battle, I was bed bound, in and out of consciousnesses, and slowly and painfully fading away I'd choose assisted if it was available to me. I'd choose it because it would be easier for me, it would spare my family the horrendous final trauma of waiting for me to go, and it would stop me being a money drain whilst I barely cling to a life I no longer wanted.
I wouldn't choose DIY suicide because I would have to go sooner than I wanted if I wanted to do it myself without implicating anyone else. I wouldn't be able to ensure it was calm and peaceful and surrounded by loved ones. It would have to be sneaky and probably quite lonely.

I know it's a lot more, this is an upsetting subject for everyone but there is a knock on effect on legalising assisted dying for those suffering.

Should traumatised teenagers who've suffered abuse get the same treatment because they can't live with the pain? This is what is happening in places it's legalised.

Sorry, but....whaaaat?

Do you have a credible link to support this seriously worrying analogy?

The Netherlands has seen a sharp increase in people asking to end their own lives in people suffering with mental illnesses.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05 ... anasia-du/

That's actually not what you said, you said "teenagers suffering abuse". I suppose you think being squashed under a train is a more preferable option, especially for their parents of course.