One for the Teachers & Social Engineers

A right load of bollocks...

Re: One for the Teachers & Social Engineers

Postby Avon Barksdale » Wed Oct 11, 2017 4:01 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Now I imagine social services are aware of this poor kid and a younger sibling I'm told, god help her, so is there nothing can be done? I genuinely feel sorry for this little girl but I don't see why my grandson or his classmates should have to witness this sort of behaviour in some of their most formative years.

At some point 'inclusiveness' has to be overridden by common sense and the needs of the majority.


There is something or a couple of things that can be done, but they take time and a lot of paperwork and referrals to achieve.

If this child is as disruptive as you believe they have probably had a CAMHS assessment already. The School may also be considering if an offsite placement would be better and dealing with the appropriate agencies. Permanently excluding a child is difficult and would require enough evidence to be obtained to show it is lawful.

In my experience at least Schools do not put the needs of a troubled child well before that of the majority of other kids and they are acutely concerned to ensure that good decisions are made bearing in mind the outcomes for all children. They do however have an extraordinary amount of red tape to get through before a child can be moved out of School.
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Re: One for the Teachers & Social Engineers

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:33 am

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Now I imagine social services are aware of this poor kid and a younger sibling I'm told, god help her, so is there nothing can be done? I genuinely feel sorry for this little girl but I don't see why my grandson or his classmates should have to witness this sort of behaviour in some of their most formative years.

At some point 'inclusiveness' has to be overridden by common sense and the needs of the majority.


There is something or a couple of things that can be done, but they take time and a lot of paperwork and referrals to achieve.

If this child is as disruptive as you believe they have probably had a CAMHS assessment already. The School may also be considering if an offsite placement would be better and dealing with the appropriate agencies. Permanently excluding a child is difficult and would require enough evidence to be obtained to show it is lawful.

In my experience at least Schools do not put the needs of a troubled child well before that of the majority of other kids and they are acutely concerned to ensure that good decisions are made bearing in mind the outcomes for all children. They do however have an extraordinary amount of red tape to get through before a child can be moved out of School.


Yes I understand that and said so in earlier posts - nevertheless there should be some sort of 'interim' measure which can be put in place, otherwise it's like a doctor saying "we will only treat an illness when we are 100% sure what it is and if it is doing damage to the host" totally ignoring the fact that in the meantime, the illness could be passed on to others - I don't like using the term but 'quarantine' seems to fit.
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Re: One for the Teachers & Social Engineers

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:06 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Now I imagine social services are aware of this poor kid and a younger sibling I'm told, god help her, so is there nothing can be done? I genuinely feel sorry for this little girl but I don't see why my grandson or his classmates should have to witness this sort of behaviour in some of their most formative years.

At some point 'inclusiveness' has to be overridden by common sense and the needs of the majority.


There is something or a couple of things that can be done, but they take time and a lot of paperwork and referrals to achieve.

If this child is as disruptive as you believe they have probably had a CAMHS assessment already. The School may also be considering if an offsite placement would be better and dealing with the appropriate agencies. Permanently excluding a child is difficult and would require enough evidence to be obtained to show it is lawful.

In my experience at least Schools do not put the needs of a troubled child well before that of the majority of other kids and they are acutely concerned to ensure that good decisions are made bearing in mind the outcomes for all children. They do however have an extraordinary amount of red tape to get through before a child can be moved out of School.


Yes I understand that and said so in earlier posts - nevertheless there should be some sort of 'interim' measure which can be put in place, otherwise it's like a doctor saying "we will only treat an illness when we are 100% sure what it is and if it is doing damage to the host" totally ignoring the fact that in the meantime, the illness could be passed on to others - I don't like using the term but 'quarantine' seems to fit.


An "interim" measure such as a fixed term exclusion?

The School has a duty of care to all children as you know. If a child persistently breaches the School's behaviour policy and their actions will result in harm to other children, physically or to their education, then they'll be excluded. The School doesn't need to have a medical diagnosis for the child in question.
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Re: One for the Teachers & Social Engineers

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:39 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Now I imagine social services are aware of this poor kid and a younger sibling I'm told, god help her, so is there nothing can be done? I genuinely feel sorry for this little girl but I don't see why my grandson or his classmates should have to witness this sort of behaviour in some of their most formative years.

At some point 'inclusiveness' has to be overridden by common sense and the needs of the majority.


There is something or a couple of things that can be done, but they take time and a lot of paperwork and referrals to achieve.

If this child is as disruptive as you believe they have probably had a CAMHS assessment already. The School may also be considering if an offsite placement would be better and dealing with the appropriate agencies. Permanently excluding a child is difficult and would require enough evidence to be obtained to show it is lawful.

In my experience at least Schools do not put the needs of a troubled child well before that of the majority of other kids and they are acutely concerned to ensure that good decisions are made bearing in mind the outcomes for all children. They do however have an extraordinary amount of red tape to get through before a child can be moved out of School.


Yes I understand that and said so in earlier posts - nevertheless there should be some sort of 'interim' measure which can be put in place, otherwise it's like a doctor saying "we will only treat an illness when we are 100% sure what it is and if it is doing damage to the host" totally ignoring the fact that in the meantime, the illness could be passed on to others - I don't like using the term but 'quarantine' seems to fit.


An "interim" measure such as a fixed term exclusion?

The School has a duty of care to all children as you know. If a child persistently breaches the School's behaviour policy and their actions will result in harm to other children, physically or to their education, then they'll be excluded. The School doesn't need to have a medical diagnosis for the child in question.


Not necessarily.

The school my grandson goes to has two sister schools, both in reasonably close proximity and there are several other non aligned in the near vicinity too. Now my grandson's reception class was one of three on that site, there would be more at other schools I mentioned.

I can't believe my grandson's class was unlucky enough to be the only one with not just one but two kids with behavioural issues. Maybe there is some merit in making a class with all the disruptive kids in the area, so their issues can either be assessed or dealt with. Of course there would be problems but not insurmountable and at least the better behaved children wouldn't have their lesson time disrupted by unruly classmates.

Of course that would attract progressive liberal thinkers to claim 'labelling' but sometimes a spade is a spade and a disruptive child is a disruptive child and if the label fits, it should be stuck on them.
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