Kevin Spacey

[Guest]

It’s almost like their careers didn’t pan out how they expected so they’re jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of cash and to get their name in the papers...

How does that theory apply to the successful women in the list of accusers of Harvey Weinstein? You know like Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, Cara Delavigne, Lena Headey, Oscar winner Lupita N'yong'o, Oscar winner Mira Sorvino etc

You mean the ones who waited until their career was successful AND for others to come forward before opening their mouths? If it scarred them so much why didn’t they speak out at the time? Worried about their own careers rather than their own self respect and well being maybe?

But you just said "It’s almost like their careers didn’t pan out how they expected so they’re jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of cash and to get their name in the papers..." now you're saying they "waited until their career was successful" make your mind up otherwise it looks like you're just bitching at the victims rather than the perpetrators.

There can be more than one reason why someone would choose to speak out 20 odd years after the fact.

The perpetrators are horrible, disgusting vile men that deserve everything coming their way. My only slight niggle is how some of the women are using it for attention or money, instead of speaking up when it happened. Not ALL of the victims I should emphasise, but some...

That sounds more reasonable, however you still seem to be erasing from history that the majority of the women did speak up at the time and the incidents were covered up by the studios.

What about the accusers of Kevin Spacey? Yesterday 8 crew members of the first series of House of Cards came forward with allegations against Spacey, are they "Jumping on the bandwagon " too? were they more worried about their careers than their self respect like the women you all lumped into one big "bandwagon jumping" extravaganza?

[Dean]

That sounds more reasonable, however you still seem to be erasing from history that the majority of the women did speak up at the time and the incidents were covered up by the studios.

What about the accusers of Kevin Spacey? Yesterday 8 crew members of the first series of House of Cards came forward with allegations against Spacey, are they "Jumping on the bandwagon " too? were they more worried about their careers than their self respect like the women you all lumped into one big "bandwagon jumping" extravaganza?

If they did speak up and the studios did cover it up, why didn’t they do something else about it? The studio covered it up so they just moved on kept quiet? Weird.

No idea about the other accusers of Spacey, I’ve lost interest in all these scandals now. Some might be making it up, who knows until the facts come out?

[Guest]

That sounds more reasonable, however you still seem to be erasing from history that the majority of the women did speak up at the time and the incidents were covered up by the studios.

What about the accusers of Kevin Spacey? Yesterday 8 crew members of the first series of House of Cards came forward with allegations against Spacey, are they "Jumping on the bandwagon " too? were they more worried about their careers than their self respect like the women you all lumped into one big "bandwagon jumping" extravaganza?

If they did speak up and the studios did cover it up, why didn’t they do something else about it? The studio covered it up so they just moved on kept quiet? Weird.

No idea about the other accusers of Spacey, I’ve lost interest in all these scandals now. Some might be making it up, who knows until the facts come out?

BiB: You're coming across as very naive. However it's clear from other conversations with you, you are not at all naive, which leads me to suppose your apparent naivete is inauthentic. I would suggest you actually read some of the more factual information out there rather than clasping the misinformed trope of "it's the victim's fault for not speaking up", but you've said you have no interest so I'll leave you to your circle jerk with the other "it's all the victim's fault" mates. Have a fab Sunday the sun is shining and I'm off to enjoy it.

[Dean]

That sounds more reasonable, however you still seem to be erasing from history that the majority of the women did speak up at the time and the incidents were covered up by the studios.

What about the accusers of Kevin Spacey? Yesterday 8 crew members of the first series of House of Cards came forward with allegations against Spacey, are they "Jumping on the bandwagon " too? were they more worried about their careers than their self respect like the women you all lumped into one big "bandwagon jumping" extravaganza?

If they did speak up and the studios did cover it up, why didn’t they do something else about it? The studio covered it up so they just moved on kept quiet? Weird.

No idea about the other accusers of Spacey, I’ve lost interest in all these scandals now. Some might be making it up, who knows until the facts come out?

BiB: You're coming across as very naive. However it's clear from other conversations with you, you are not at all naive, which leads me to suppose your apparent naivete is inauthentic. I would suggest you actually read some of the more factual information out there rather than clasping the misinformed trope of "it's the victim's fault for not speaking up", but you've said you have no interest so I'll leave you to your circle jerk with the other "it's all the victim's fault" mates. Have a fab Sunday the sun is shining and I'm off to enjoy it.

I don’t blame the victims at all, I just think SOME of them may be out to get a bit of money or attention. But like you say, I don’t know enough about the claims to say for certain. If like you say I’m wrong then I’ll admit it and say so... I don’t feel that strongly either way about the whole saga to be honest...

Enjoy your Sunday sun...

[jp761]

@dean^^ Some fair common sense spoken, and fair enough questions posed/asked...

Although you've said nothing wrong, you'd have been lambasted to high heaven if you typed what you have on DS, in a certain thread or two.. Well there would have been attempts made, at least. It's the kind of debate that's needed, without people being accused of 'victim blaming'.

True about a studio, surely the people who managed to speak up to the studio, would also be able to speak up to the police at the time. That seems like a reasonable conclusion.

Also I wonder if the guest realises, posing these question/s, as to why so many people have waited 20 years or more to say anything is a fair enough question to pose. I've noticed even on radio interviews etc, the host does actually ask these question/s when talking to a news reporter/or alleged victim even. Even the uber careful about what they say the BBC pose the question.

In the long run posing these kind of questions may actually help people find the courage and strength to speak up at the time, clearly the sooner someone can speak up the easier it is to get someone into serious trouble with the law. Everything is fresher, any evidence etc, it will also overcome Americas laws regarding time that's passed.

[Dean]

I thinks it’s just a weak argument to shout ‘victim blaming’ to anyone who isn’t frothing at the mouth with outrage...

[jp761]

I thinks it’s just a weak argument to shout ‘victim blaming’ to anyone who isn’t frothing at the mouth with outrage...

True. And I'm sure many of us know plenty of family and friends who are females, who also pose/ask the same kind of questions. Clearly it doesn't have to be anything to do with actually 'blaming' the victim.

[Lady Murasaki]

Well you've answered your own comment about it not being dealt with at the time, how do you prove one persons word against another?

I've already said you can't.

Literally, anyone can say anything about anyone else. If enough people target the same person, they're pretty much fucked, whether they've done anything wrong or not. For all we know, they may be something to this story, but not to all the subsequent claims. Or he could have done nothing wrong at all, or he could be some kind of sexual predator who's been at it for years. Without evidence, who knows?

It's the same with many of the 'historical' cases in Operation Yewtree. One person's word against another, then others crawling out the woodwork saying the same person abused them as well. Who's telling the truth and who's lying? (I'm not talking about Savile or any of the obvious ones btw.)

I think if you don't come forward at the time, you've kind of missed the boat re getting justice for any alleged wrongdoing. Justice shouldn't be about simply believing one person over another - there should be evidence, forensics and/or witness statements etc. If someone stole my car today I wouldn't wait until 2047 before telling the police, and expect them to get it back for me.

It the system that's at fault, people do come forward etc, but without proof and with the threat of being put through the ringer in courts it doesn't get very far. The main issue here is the conspiracy of silence of people who know and just accept the dodgy behaviour. I still like Spaceys films, if he did do what's being said it needed addressing so that he could be helped and not put himself through all this crap later in life. Maybe that's the lesson people in the business will take away from all this.

[Trapper John]

I wonder why people are so surprised that things like this go on, this whole Power v Aspiration thing has been going on since mankind has existed as a civilisation, probably even longer.

Our history tells us that nations were forged, alliances made and lives saved by marrying off kids to powerful men. Whilst people possess power and influence there will always be someone willing to do whatever it takes to take advantage of it if they see it as a way of achieving their goals.

Has anyone come forward yet to say "Yep I'm super famous and as rich as fucking Croesus though I had to suck Harvey Weinstein or Kevin Spacey's dick to get here"? ...... It seems to be that in every case, those complaining about it now are doing so, not because they were shocked and appalled by what happened but because their careers didn't match their aspirations - a bit like "I didn't get what I paid for"

Life is a gamble, you either take the bet or you don't, you have the choice. It's no good saying that "I gambled and lost and now I want my money back" - life doesn't work that way.

It’s almost like their careers didn’t pan out how they expected so they’re jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of cash and to get their name in the papers...

How does that theory apply to the successful women in the list of accusers of Harvey Weinstein? You know like Angelina Jolie, Gwyneth Paltrow, Cara Delavigne, Lena Headey, Oscar winner Lupita N'yong'o, Oscar winner Mira Sorvino etc

Well I've heard of two of them, mainly because they got hooked up with more famous partners.

I find it hard to believe that Angelina Jolie had any problems or suffered any ignominies getting acting parts with a Dad like Jon Voight. As for Gwyneth Paltrow, I wouldn't take anything she says seriously, she called her kids Apple and Moses and drinks her own piss for christ sake.

[Lady Murasaki]

Who your dad is or what you name your kids doesn't suggest anything.
GGMS

[Trapper John]

Who your dad is or what you name your kids doesn't suggest anything.
GGMS

Speak English, whats GGMS?

[Lady Murasaki]

Who your dad is or what you name your kids doesn't suggest anything.
GGMS

Speak English, whats GGMS?

God Give Me Strength!

[Trapper John]

Who your dad is or what you name your kids doesn't suggest anything.
GGMS

Speak English, whats GGMS?

God Give Me Strength!

OK. Of course who your dad is would make a hell of a difference, I can't see anyone, no matter how powerful a movie mogul they are asking the daughter of one of Hollywood's royalty to SMD.

[Lady Murasaki]

Weinstein has a bullying reputation, he believed he was above it all. It's entirely believable.
And I'm not going to give you the pleasure of asking what SMD is, I already know.

[Trapper John]

Weinstein has a bullying reputation, he believed he was above it all. It's entirely believable.
And I'm not going to give you the pleasure of asking what SMD is, I already know.

I'm sure you do, have a pleasant movie night.