Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

A right load of bollocks...

Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Trapper John » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:24 pm

Without 'Propaganda' there would be little conflict.

The pen being mightier than the sword is a phrase usually associated with peace, in reality whether written or spoken, propaganda in all it's forms is the foodstuff of conflict and has been for millennia. Without it there would have been no war in Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan, no conflict in the middle east, or Ireland or even WW2 in fact you can find propaganda at the heart of every and any conflict you care to name.

Propaganda is simply another word for 'lie' - a lie or collection of lies spread by interested parties to garner support for unpalatable actions or in many cases, ingrain a belief in it's listeners so horrifying that it continues to remain in the collective conscience for generations and even centuries after.

Some months ago I was reading some collected accounts of the life of Oliver Cromwell and came across a study by a renowned Irish historian whose name escapes me at present but who had written with authority after spending almost 30 years studying Cromwell's campaigns in Ireland after the English Civil War. It dawned on me that a particular account ably portrays propaganda at it's finest and shows the far reaching affect it has.

Even to this day, Cromwell and his name is utterly detested in the Irish Republic. He is English evil personified and children are taught from an early age about this cruel, wicked man and his exploits on Irish soil. In fact, all the Irish troubles up to this day can be traced back to a single event in 1649 when Cromwell laid siege to the Irish coastal town of Drogheda, north of Dublin.

Now the Irish account, generally accepted in Irish history goes like this. Drogheda was a fortified coastal town defended by some 2000 English and Irish Royalist soldiers and a civilian population of men, women and children numbering around 1500. After laying siege to the town with a superior force of 12000 troops for several days, Cromwell gave orders to attack and breach the walls giving orders that no mercy be shown to any inhabitant. The walls were breached and Irish history says every inhabitant, including all civilians were massacred.

This one incident was the catalyst which brought together the first calls for an independent Ireland free from English tyranny. This incident has been used ever since as the prime example to Irish freedom fighters and ordinary people alike, eventually bringing about all the conflicts which later resulted in the Irish Free State and even the more recent troubles in Ulster.

Did it happen or was this propaganda by Irish catholics, at first to stir up hatred and resolve against the protestant English and later used as a rallying call for independence and uprising?

The aforementioned historian and others since now doubt it, mostly due to no contemporary evidence but in the historian's case, very good evidence to the contrary. He found that far from the murdering monster Cromwell was made out to be by the Irish, he was a committed soldier with firm military and religious beliefs. Even by the standards of the day, a massacre of that enormity would have been considered beyond the pale and nowhere can it be found that Cromwell order civilian deaths here or in his entire life, it would have been anathema to him.

The historian found no less than ten documents and written orders by Cromwell which stated that this was 'a war of soldiers', no civilians are to be harmed or killed. This fact seems to be confirmed by a contemporary account written by an officer on the campaign who was disgruntled because Cromwell had found out that two soldiers from the officer's command had stolen two chickens from an old Irish woman and had them executed. It was clear to everyone, Cromwell's orders were not to be challenged.

In fact further investigation showed that even of those soldiers captured he didn't kill them all, he did the 'Roman' thing by decimating the remaining defenders and then, only those who had locked themselves in two towers and had sniped his soldiers causing deaths and casualties, sending the rest off to Barbados as slaves.

So an early account of the power of propaganda - the lie of a massacre which never happened leading to almost 370 years of hostility, hatred, death and misery all coming from the words out of the mouths of a few power hungry deathmongers, the pen (words) is certainly more mightier than the sword.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby cobaye22 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:35 pm

Trapper John wrote:Without 'Propaganda' there would be little conflict.

Seems arse about tit to me, but on reflection you may have a point. They are intertwined.
I'll go with wikipedia for the rest though, it doesn't editorialise.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Keyser » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:40 pm

History is a mass of contradictions, propaganda and distortion and the truth is very hard to decipher from all the shite.

For example I watched a couple of documentaries on Nero and Gaius Germanicus (Caligula) and they may not have been anywhere near as bad as history has painted them.

https://listverse.com/2013/04/29/9-reas ... you-think/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23455774

https://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/mythbu ... ro-really/



Of course there is no contemporary historical evidence for Yeshua and virtually none for the Prophet either.

Yet billions around the world still believe in their existence.

Human beings are a funny lot. :dunno:
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Fri Nov 17, 2017 10:53 pm

cobaye22 wrote:
Trapper John wrote:Without 'Propaganda' there would be little conflict.

Seems arse about tit to me, but on reflection you may have a point. They are intertwined.
I'll go with wikipedia for the rest though, it doesn't editorialise.

Propaganda is the excuse for conflict no......
:dunno:
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Guest » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:58 am

Another fine piece, TJ. Keep them coming.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Trapper John » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:54 pm

Big Fat Frosty wrote:
cobaye22 wrote:
Trapper John wrote:Without 'Propaganda' there would be little conflict.

Seems arse about tit to me, but on reflection you may have a point. They are intertwined.
I'll go with wikipedia for the rest though, it doesn't editorialise.

Propaganda is the excuse for conflict no......
:dunno:


Spot on.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Trapper John » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:58 pm

cobaye22 wrote:
Trapper John wrote:Without 'Propaganda' there would be little conflict.

Seems arse about tit to me, but on reflection you may have a point. They are intertwined.
I'll go with wikipedia for the rest though, it doesn't editorialise.


I think you'll find that propaganda 'inspires' conflict.

For example, had we listened to the propaganda being spouted by the warmongers Hague and Cameron, we'd probably still be up to our necks in sand, bullets and bodies in Syria. :thumbsup:
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Canucklehead » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:42 pm

Bush and the WMD’s they never found comes to mind. That bit of propaganda created a shitstorm we are still dealing with.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Trapper John » Sun Nov 19, 2017 8:14 am

Canucklehead wrote:Bush and the WMD’s they never found comes to mind. That bit of propaganda created a shitstorm we are still dealing with.


Correct :thumbsup:

Also blaming Saddam for 9/11 initially, set the tone in the American people's minds whipping them up for some payback, WMD's or not.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:57 pm

They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.
More or less.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:03 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.

the twin towers can be replaced
the Buddhas of Bamiyan
cannot
lament
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:06 pm

Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.

the twin towers can be replaced
the Buddhas of Bamiyan
cannot
lament


Buddhists don't really care about idols.
More or less.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:25 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.

the twin towers can be replaced
the Buddhas of Bamiyan
cannot
lament


Buddhists don't really care about idols.

so why did they build them all..
:dunno:
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Lady Murasaki » Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:36 pm

Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.

the twin towers can be replaced
the Buddhas of Bamiyan
cannot
lament


Buddhists don't really care about idols.

so why did they build them all..
:dunno:


Landmark. On the silk trade route. :dunno:
They don't tend to worship them.
More or less.
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Re: Propaganda & Conflict the best of bedfellows

Postby Big Fat Frosty » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:03 pm

Lady Murasaki wrote:
Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:
Big Fat Frosty wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:They may be the best of bedfellows but they leave destruction and devastation.
Creators and builders are better bedfellows.

the twin towers can be replaced
the Buddhas of Bamiyan
cannot
lament


Buddhists don't really care about idols.

so why did they build them all..
:dunno:


Landmark. On the silk trade route. :dunno:
They don't tend to worship them.

they were nice landmarks nevertheless
so its ok if i tear down the pyramids at gizza
lets just raze it all to the ground
in the name of a new god
ffs
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